NCAA SUIP rumor

[ronald]

two things.

1) uic told another guy that they met this week. so i misheard or they are meeting again.

2) lurine hamilton (think this is right) is aware of the held or to be held meetings. if it comes from her on the ncaa side, you can take it to the bank something is happening between the two organizations. and that source is one of her evaluators.

[luvthegame]

Okey dokey...then.

Sounds like a little bit of "one summer I went to band camp"....and the brother of my best friends sister heard from the kitchen cook that she had heard from the band teachers brother that......

I guess we'll see...

[CelticNHBlue]

First, to the general topic, I am hearing more and more from more highly credible sources that this is actually happening; not a band camp moment (which was pretty funny, I liked that analogy). To your points, Mike

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Just where do you think umpires for these games came from before the NCAA got involved in softball officiating?

In many cases, if not most, the schools would contract local associations, many of which were ASA. Not that long ago, the NCAA softball rules were nothing more than an addendum to the ASA rule book.

I agree with that fact, Mike, however in the past ten years, as the SUIP has developed, the two groups, specifically in regards to mechanics, have been diverging. I'm not claiming either one is any better than the other at training umpires only that the SUIP has had the luxury of focusing on advancing or advanced umpires. Also, the purpose of the SUIP was to create a more consistent application of the rules and mechanics because the NCAA wasn't getting that consistency from the, often ASA, local/regional umpire groups. Again, I refer to your comment on Billy P. and the lack of that level of training yet established by ASA at a National level.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

So, this really isn't something new. ASA registration does include the insurance coverage and I don't see an issue with making a deal with the carrier, Bollinger, Markel or whoever, in including NCAA games as part of the coverage. This would also allow the umpire to register once for both. For that matter (God help me for thinking this out loud), this may be the predecessor to ASA taking insurance "in house".

I can only see a positive for the umpires as it comes to the administrative side of the issue. Obviously, a lot of legalese will be bantered about between the two.

How it turns out on the training side, I'd rather not even guess on that point.

Again, I agree with your assertion regarding the 'grass roots' umpires and the adminstration thereof . For me, though, it isn't the training that is the big question, it is the upper level management of the process. Of course, I am speaking from my micorocosm here in the Northeast and only have a distant and not very focused view of the detailed inner workings and activities at the National level so I may be misguided in my perception. The fact is, I like alot of what the SUIP has done and how it was conducted better than how ASA has operated. I, personally, would hate to see those aspects lost in the process.

I've been an ASA member since my dad got me started 25 years ago. I greatly appreciate what they have to offer umpires in the form of training, assignments, and levels to which one can aspire. I just think there should be another level of training available and that the Elite umpire program could/should be a part of that process. Maybe this is an opportunity for ASA to adopt something (advanced umpire training) that is fairly well developed and use it to their advantage.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CelticNHBlue

I've been an ASA member since my dad got me started 25 years ago. I greatly appreciate what they have to offer umpires in the form of training, assignments, and levels to which one can aspire. I just think there should be another level of training available and that the Elite umpire program could/should be a part of that process. Maybe this is an opportunity for ASA to adopt something (advanced umpire training) that is fairly well developed and use it to their advantage.

I think we are on the same page. Part of what needs to be remembered is the differences in market. ASA training addresses umpiring all division, classifications and levels of each game. The SUIP only had to deal with a select group with a single target in a very controled environment.

I believe the administration is going to be the sticking point, if any. Will the dictation to call a violation if you see it remain and actually effected, or will it go by the way of satisfying the coach's whim and fancy?

I guess it will be interesting, if nothing else, to see how this may unfold.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

...I believe the administration is going to be the sticking point, if any. Will the dictation to call a violation if you see it remain and actually effected, or will it go by the way of satisfying the coach's whim and fancy?...

As someone watching this from outside, this seems to be the crux of the issue that led to the departure of the three in the first place. If I was representing ASA in these talks, that is the first issue I would insist on being answered by the NCAA, and answered honestly. The NCAA's response would go a long way (again, if I was representing ASA) in determining if I even wanted to step into this mess.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

As someone watching this from outside, this seems to be the crux of the issue that led to the departure of the three in the first place. If I was representing ASA in these talks, that is the first issue I would insist on being answered by the NCAA, and answered honestly. The NCAA's response would go a long way (again, if I was representing ASA) in determining if I even wanted to step into this mess.

The excuse given me by a coach when NCAA decided to develop their own brand was that they did not want ASA on the field as, according to them, it gave the impression the NCAA was using umpires who just chase little girls around the field.

Hey, not my explanation, but is sounds a lot like the same crap I use to hear from a certain Texan baseball umpire, Carl C.

However, I would venture to say that this would be more of an agreement to provide the training, not take over as an official interpreter for the NCAA. I would bet they keep such a position in house.

[ronald]

Originally Posted by luvthegame

Okey dokey...then.

Sounds like a little bit of "one summer I went to band camp"....and the brother of my best friends sister heard from the kitchen cook that she had heard from the band teachers brother that......

I guess we'll see...

nah,

This is more like the lieutenant heard it from the major who heard it from the general who heard it from the chairman of the armed forces. On second thought, the general was probably right there with the chairman.

[topper]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The excuse given me by a coach when NCAA decided to develop their own brand was that they did not want ASA on the field as, according to them, it gave the impression the NCAA was using umpires who just chase little girls around the field.

We all know what comes from listening to coaches.

IF, and that's a big IF, this move was being seriously considered, ASA would have to assume the role of contactor to the NCAA Softball Committee as opposed to running their own organization arbitrarily. The committee has a record of making changes to their game far more often than ASA does. It would be interesting to see how ASA handles this much fluidity. Although it could be argued that the former staff's knee-jerk reactions to the committee's every whim created some of the issues that led to their dismissal.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by topper

We all know what comes from listening to coaches.

IF, and that's a big IF, this move was being seriously considered, ASA would have to assume the role of contactor to the NCAA Softball Committee as opposed to running their own organization arbitrarily. The committee has a record of making changes to their game far more often than ASA does. It would be interesting to see how ASA handles this much fluidity. Although it could be argued that the former staff's knee-jerk reactions to the committee's every whim created some of the issues that led to their dismissal.

That is the difference between a democratic (probably not the proper label, but gets the point across) system and a dictatorship.

When it comes to rules, the process doesn't need to be, but can be difficult to navigate since any change can affect multiple games and scenarios whereas the NCAA only has to deal with a single game at a single level in a closed shop.

I would assume the NCAA rules would be handled the same as the modified or 16" or masters/seniors game, as exceptions to some rules with some specific special rules for their game only.

However, I don't see this as a total merger, just one that may allow the ASA to complement the NCAA umpire program, more administrative as opposed to legislative.

BTW, I have heard from a separate source that pretty much confirms what Ronald has indicated as to the level of those who were discussing this issue.

[topper]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

However, I don't see this as a total merger, just one that may allow the ASA to complement the NCAA umpire program, more administrative as opposed to legislative.

I doubt the NCAA Softball Committee is looking to ASA for rules making assistance. The SUIP existed primarily for one reason; to select officials for the postseason. The training and guidance they provided umpires was a means to that end. I assume that is what would be asked of ASA as well.

All criticism of ASA aside, I am trying to understand how it would complement the program.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by topper

All criticism of ASA aside, I am trying to understand how it would complement the program.

As am I.

[Skahtboi]

The SUIP Coordinator's position is listed as a "want ad" on the SUIP site. If any of you are interested, here is the job posting:

SUIP National Coordinator Position

So, it would seem that the NCAA is planning on staying autonomous from any other organization.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

The SUIP Coordinator's position is listed as a "want ad" on the SUIP site. If any of you are interested, here is the job posting:

SUIP National Coordinator Position

So, it would seem that the NCAA is planning on staying autonomous from any other organization.

I wonder if that job description has changed from when Kathy Straham was hired?

[luvthegame]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

I wonder if that job description has changed from when Kathy Straham was hired?

I would guess the job description has changed fluidly!! And the current one is what was created by the last SUIP!! The NCAA might not know what THEY want...until they survey their various committees...and constituents!!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by luvthegame

I would guess the job description has changed fluidly!! And the current one is what was created by the last SUIP!! The NCAA might not know what THEY want...until they survey their various committees...and constituents!!

Good point. I guess my question would be what type of position do they need to fill? Is it someone to work for the coaches in determining how the game should be called? Someone whose responsibility is to train and evaluate?

I'm asking because I really don't know, but who is the "czar" (hate the term, but it makes the point) of NCAA softball? Who carries the lone, final word in the decision making process in the sport at this level?