Humor me guys if you please.....fair or foul....

[surf24]

Ball is hit to outfield. It is falling down right over the fair/foul line. The fielder is standing two foot inside fair territory and reaches over and the ball hits his glove and falls into foul territory.

What is it? Fair or foul?

[Welpe]

Where was the ball when it was touched? That is the key. I am inferring from your post that the ball was in foul territory when touched, so it is foul.

[LMan]

Yes. Doesn't matter where he is standing; it's where the ball was when touched.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by surf24

Ball is hit to outfield. It is falling down right over the fair/foul line. The fielder is standing two foot inside fair territory and reaches over and the ball hits his glove and falls into foul territory.

What is it? Fair or foul?

I don't know - not enough information. 2 feet inside? Maybe the ball was foul, maybe fair. I'll ask you, then... was it foul or fair when it was first touched? (Where the player was and where the ball landed, which is all you gave us, are both irrelevant.)

[surf24]

The ball was right over the fair/foul line.....if it would have hit the ground it would have landed on the chalk line......or just inside fair territory.

For the record.....I was not calling this game but playing in it. And yes I do know that I am projecting that it would land on the chalk line.

Here is the deal. This same umpire last week said that a ball landed on the foul side of the chalk line. He actually said, "I saw the chalk puff up but it landed on the foul side of the line."

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by surf24

The ball was right over the fair/foul line.....if it would have hit the ground it would have landed on the chalk line......or just inside fair territory.

For the record.....I was not calling this game but playing in it. And yes I do know that I am projecting that it would land on the chalk line.

Here is the deal. This same umpire last week said that a ball landed on the foul side of the chalk line. He actually said, "I saw the chalk puff up but it landed on the foul side of the line."

Where it would have landed is also irrelevant.

Here's what the umpire has to judge... quite simply: Was the ball over fair or foul territory when it was first touched. That's all - nothing else matters.

If your umpire said what he said, you should have protested - he has the rule wrong. If ANY part of the ball touches ANY part of the line (or is touched, as in your OP, directly over ANY part of the line) - it's fair.

[surf24]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Where it would have landed is also irrelevant.

Here's what the umpire has to judge... quite simply: Was the ball over fair or foul territory when it was first touched. That's all - nothing else matters.

If your umpire said what he said, you should have protested - he has the rule wrong. If ANY part of the ball touches ANY part of the line (or is touched, as in your OP, directly over ANY part of the line) - it's fair.

Thank you mbcrowder. That is what I said and he told me I was totally wrong and needed to go read my manual before I ever open my mouth again. grrr.....

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by surf24

Thank you mbcrowder. That is what I said and he told me I was totally wrong and needed to go read my manual before I ever open my mouth again. grrr.....

You said the word protest?

If your league doesn't allow protests, you need to go to the UIC (or to the League Pres and let him/her go to the UIC) and get this corrected.

[surf24]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

You said the word protest?

If your league doesn't allow protests, you need to go to the UIC (or to the League Pres and let him/her go to the UIC) and get this corrected.

No, the league allows protests. That umpire told me that I was wrong about the rule and he was correct.

This kind of interpretation of rules really are frustrating to me. I am of the opinion that if you are not sure exactly what a rule means or if the wording is confusing to you, you need to get it clarified. Now, this fair/foul thing - I really don't think any part of the wording or "concept" is confusing. It just seems that this particular umpire kind of has it in his own mind a certain way or something. He is also pretty young---really don't know if that has anything to do with it.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by surf24

The ball was right over the fair/foul line.....if it would have hit the ground it would have landed on the chalk line......or just inside fair territory.

For the record.....I was not calling this game but playing in it. And yes I do know that I am projecting that it would land on the chalk line.

Here is the deal. This same umpire last week said that a ball landed on the foul side of the chalk line. He actually said, "I saw the chalk puff up but it landed on the foul side of the line."

He definitely said too much here unless you're dropping context but here's what he may have been saying. The ball hit in foul territory (completely outside the line) and in it's subsequent movement after hitting the ground caused the chalk to fly up in the air.
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[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by surf24

No, the league allows protests. That umpire told me that I was wrong about the rule and he was correct.

That's what the protest is for then. If the umpire has the rule wrong, the only way to correct it in that game is to protest. If he does this again, protest, you'll win.

Originally Posted by surf24

This kind of interpretation of rules really are frustrating to me. I am of the opinion that if you are not sure exactly what a rule means or if the wording is confusing to you, you need to get it clarified. Now, this fair/foul thing - I really don't think any part of the wording or "concept" is confusing. It just seems that this particular umpire kind of has it in his own mind a certain way or something. He is also pretty young---really don't know if that has anything to do with it.

It's frustrating to the rest of us too ... this is Umpiring 101. The rest of us spend good money getting trained, getting the right equipment, learning the inticracies of the game - it's irritating that someone who believes what you say is out there taking games. (Then again, I'm the one who just had a partner ON THE FIELD tell me that "the hands are part of the bat." That was just as irritating!)

[surf24]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

That's what the protest is for then. If the umpire has the rule wrong, the only way to correct it in that game is to protest. If he does this again, protest, you'll win.

It's frustrating to the rest of us too ... this is Umpiring 101. The rest of us spend good money getting trained, getting the right equipment, learning the inticracies of the game - it's irritating that someone who believes what you say is out there taking games. (Then again, I'm the one who just had a partner ON THE FIELD tell me that "the hands are part of the bat." That was just as irritating!)

Well.......we were already winning so it was more a matter that I wanted a fellow umpire to not be representing so badly.......

Yes.......this. So disappointing. I remember several years ago when I first start umpiring on a volunteer basis. I read and read the rule book and when I wasn't playing I was watching trying to absorb good info. I guess some people just aren't as concerned with getting it "right" maybe.......but I am.