R1 misses home

[Tru_in_Blu]

Hi,

Quick question on a situation I had come up this week.

Bases loaded, 2 outs. Batter draws a walk on a pitch that gets away from the catcher. All runners advance. R1 from 3B steps over the plate and doesn't touch it. She's headed to the dugout, about 15' from home. Third base coach notices his runner missed HP and yells to her to touch it. Defensive coach picks up on this and yells to his catcher to "tag her!"

So now the secret is loose, and the catcher who was recovering the ball approaches HP w/ the ball in her possession. Runner turns back towards home to tag it. Before she gets there, F1 has stepped on HP, but now is trying to tag the runner. A little dance ensues and the runner is finally tagged.

I let it play out before making the call.

My question is could I have made the call once the catcher stepped on HP? Whether or not she knew of this type of appeal, the D-coach had awakened the unknowing.

The O-coach was adamant that a runner couldn't be called out on a walk, and I informed him otherwise. He asked if the run would have counted had he not said anything. I said it would have provided the defense did not appeal the missed base or after a pitch had been thrown to the next batter. Had he not said anything, I don't think the defense would have appealed. [There were 2 other instances of missed bases that were never appealed, one on a 2-out hit that scored 2 runs and BR never touched 1B.]

I know if the runner made it into the dugout, she couldn't come back to touch.

Thanx.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Hi,

Quick question on a situation I had come up this week.

Bases loaded, 2 outs. Batter draws a walk on a pitch that gets away from the catcher. All runners advance. R1 from 3B steps over the plate and doesn't touch it. She's headed to the dugout, about 15' from home. Third base coach notices his runner missed HP and yells to her to touch it. Defensive coach picks up on this and yells to his catcher to "tag her!"

So now the secret is loose, and the catcher who was recovering the ball approaches HP w/ the ball in her possession. Runner turns back towards home to tag it. Before she gets there, F1 has stepped on HP, but now is trying to tag the runner. A little dance ensues and the runner is finally tagged.

I let it play out before making the call.

My question is could I have made the call once the catcher stepped on HP? Whether or not she knew of this type of appeal, the D-coach had awakened the unknowing.

The O-coach was adamant that a runner couldn't be called out on a walk, and I informed him otherwise. He asked if the run would have counted had he not said anything. I said it would have provided the defense did not appeal the missed base or after a pitch had been thrown to the next batter. Had he not said anything, I don't think the defense would have appealed. [There were 2 other instances of missed bases that were never appealed, one on a 2-out hit that scored 2 runs and BR never touched 1B.]

I know if the runner made it into the dugout, she couldn't come back to touch.

Thanx.

Tru_in_Blu:

Did F1 touch HP in response to her coach's instructions or in an attempt to tag R1? If F1 touched HP in response to her coach's instructions, then the defensive appeal has been successful.

MTD, Sr.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Tru_in_Blu:

Did F1 touch HP in response to her coach's instructions or in an attempt to tag R1? If F1 touched HP in response to her coach's instructions, then the defensive appeal has been successful.

MTD, Sr.

Well, who knows what goes on in the head of a 12-year old. The coach yelled at her to tag the runner. On her way to do that, she stepped on HP.

If in that scenario, the runner somehow made it back to HP and touched before being tagged [tag w/ glove, ball in hand], how could you sell it to the D-coach who saw his catcher standing on HP?

I'd consider this a live ball appeal. This opposed to a dead ball appeal on a runner missing a base or leaving early on a fly ball. That appeal would have to come from an infielder [and NOT the coach].

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

My question is could I have made the call once the catcher stepped on HP? Whether or not she knew of this type of appeal, the D-coach had awakened the unknowing.

I would not without an indication that was an appeal.

The O-coach was adamant that a runner couldn't be called out on a walk, and I informed him otherwise. He asked if the run would have counted had he not said anything. I said it would have provided the defense did not appeal the missed base or after a pitch had been thrown to the next batter. Had he not said anything, I don't think the defense would have appealed. [There were 2 other instances of missed bases that were never appealed, one on a 2-out hit that scored 2 runs and BR never touched 1B.]

Does this fall under the, "be careful what you wish for" category.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I'd consider this a live ball appeal. This opposed to a dead ball appeal on a runner missing a base or leaving early on a fly ball. That appeal would have to come from an infielder [and NOT the coach].

Speaking NFHS, can't a coach make a dead ball appeal after play is over?

In ASA, 8-7-I-2 seems to allow any defensive player to make a live ball appeal. ASA 8-7-I-3 limits dead ball appeals to the infielders.

[MD Longhorn]

Sounds to me like whoever had the ball touched home on accident. There are no accidental appeals. If she was still trying to make a tag, the touch of home was not an appeal.

Now... that said, who has the dang ball?!?!?! You flip flop back and forth between pitcher and catcher. I'm assuming that whoever was on the plate trying to make a tag had the ball, but you never said she did, nor how she GOT the ball. If this person on the plate didn't yet have the ball, you have obstruction.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Sounds to me like whoever had the ball touched home on accident. There are no accidental appeals. If she was still trying to make a tag, the touch of home was not an appeal.

Now... that said, who has the dang ball?!?!?! You flip flop back and forth between pitcher and catcher. I'm assuming that whoever was on the plate trying to make a tag had the ball, but you never said she did, nor how she GOT the ball. If this person on the plate didn't yet have the ball, you have obstruction.

Sorry - typo, not a flip-flop. Catcher F2 retrieved and had the ball the whole time.

Thinking about it some more, if the situation was a batter-runner missing 2B or 3B [no force situations] and tried to get back, it would have to be a tag the runner and not the base. Only after the play had completed could the defense appeal the missed base.

Yeah, that's it. I think I'm convincing myself.

[greymule]

Thinking about it some more, if the situation was a batter-runner missing 2B or 3B [no force situations] and tried to get back, it would have to be a tag the runner and not the base. Only after the play had completed could the defense appeal the missed base.

In ASA, after a miss, the defense can appeal by tagging the missed base. There's no "in the vicinity" or "returning to touch" rule (or, more accurately, interpretation) as there is under official baseball rules. No need to wait until play stops.