Pitch in circle, raises throwing hand with ball, LBR?

[MD Longhorn]

But we have an answer in the rulebook, and you quoted it. Anything that the UMPIRE judges is a play ... is a play.

To say that EVERY time the pitcher raises her arm in the air, it's a play - would be false. To say that it's NEVER a play would also be false. I've seen pitchers turn toward a runner and put an arm in the air where I'd call it nothing - she's got to do something to "make a play". Standing there with your arm in the air is nothing. However if the moment she raises her arm causes a reaction by the runner - I'm pretty likely to call that a play ... because the runner thought it was a play.

That said, any motion along with that arm raise (such as a step forward, or even just quickly raising the arm), I'm giving the benefit of doubt to the runner and letting them react.

Mike - I've been gone a while. I too think the rule can be done away with ... but what do you propose replaces it? Simply requiring the runner to be back before the pitcher pitches? Or something else?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

But we have an answer in the rulebook, and you quoted it. Anything that the UMPIRE judges is a play ... is a play.

Actually, ASA defines a play in Rule 1.

Mike - I've been gone a while. I too think the rule can be done away with ... but what do you propose replaces it? Simply requiring the runner to be back before the pitcher pitches? Or something else?

What do you do in SP? Same thing.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

...What do you do in SP? Same thing.

You mean call TIME and meander back into position?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

What do you do in SP? Same thing.

Don't you think the ambience/attutude differences would make it more difficult, especially in youth FP, which I assume is the reason for the rule in the first place?

Excuse my years of absence from SP, but what happens in SP if a runner decides to round 1st, and just stay off the base while the pitcher is prepping to pitch?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Don't you think the ambience/attutude differences would make it more difficult, especially in youth FP, which I assume is the reason for the rule in the first place?

Excuse my years of absence from SP, but what happens in SP if a runner decides to round 1st, and just stay off the base while the pitcher is prepping to pitch?

You let them play the game. When it is obvious that all play is finished, you call time and HUSTLE back to position.

For some reason, the FP community keeps on bringing up the "that's stupid. FP is a 'live ball' game" bull$hit. Then when ask what is supposed to happen with the ball in the circle, these folks get a real stupid "what kind of question is that?" look on their face and say, "well, nothing". Do you know what doesn't happen if you kill the ball? You don't have coaches and parents screaming, "look back, look back, she stepped off the base, you have to call her out". You don't have coaches concocting TWP trying to draw an LBR violation. You don't have to worry about how prompt a runner reacts to advance or return. You don't have to worry about whether the pitcher's movements should be considered a play or not. You don't have to worry about chalking a circle on the field. You don't have to worry about whether there was an attempt to 2B after the runner turn right or left or whether she stepped directly toward 2nd or 1st or somewhere in between or whether that was her one allowable stop or not.

Well, if nothing is supposed to happen, why does the ball need to remain live? You know, I've been asking that question for a couple years now and I still haven't gotten a reasonable answer.

[MD Longhorn]

I see your point, Mike - I really do... and I can see how that would simplify things (and probably waste a lot less time).

I don't so SP ... so what do you do if, after a Base on Balls, the BR runs to halfway between 1st and 2nd, and then walks toward 2nd. Keep it live? What if she stops 2/3 of the way and starts walking toward 1st? Can R1 on third remain off 3rd, "playing with the pitcher" while BR moves? Not arguing with you at all ... just wondering if the stoppage of play is codified, or it's something left up to umpire judgement.

One thing (perhaps the only thing) I do like about LBR is the situation with R1 on 3rd having to be ON the bag, or moving in 1 direction while BR advances to 2nd after a walk. Without LBR, R1 could take a decent lead - short enough to return, far enough to score if the ball goes to 2nd, and pretty much guarantee BR 2nd base. With LBR, R1 has to stay (making a play on BR not as risky ... although so many coaches refuse this easy out for some reason), or move (putting herself at risk if she gets too far off).

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I see your point, Mike - I really do... and I can see how that would simplify things (and probably waste a lot less time).

I don't so SP ... so what do you do if, after a Base on Balls, the BR runs to halfway between 1st and 2nd, and then walks toward 2nd. Keep it live? What if she stops 2/3 of the way and starts walking toward 1st? Can R1 on third remain off 3rd, "playing with the pitcher" while BR moves? Not arguing with you at all ... just wondering if the stoppage of play is codified, or it's something left up to umpire judgement.

Like I said before. You let them play. When the softball play is obviously finished, and the monkey play begins, you just kill the ball. Yes, you wait for a runner to stop advancing, but when they stop and they are no longer trying to advance and the pitcher isn't making a play, you kill it.

One thing (perhaps the only thing) I do like about LBR is the situation with R1 on 3rd having to be ON the bag, or moving in 1 direction while BR advances to 2nd after a walk. Without LBR, R1 could take a decent lead - short enough to return, far enough to score if the ball goes to 2nd, and pretty much guarantee BR 2nd base. With LBR, R1 has to stay (making a play on BR not as risky ... although so many coaches refuse this easy out for some reason), or move (putting herself at risk if she gets too far off).

It is all jugment and NOTHING that you come up with in a FP came has not already occurred in the SP game. And it seems to have worked all these years.

And yes, you will get the idiot coach who makes a career out of complaining and blaming others for his/her shortcomings.

Coach: Blue, you can't do that, my player was going to ..................
Umpire: Then she SHOULD have done it coach.
Coach: But...
Umpire: We're playing ball, coach.