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Old Sat Jan 14, 2006, 03:50pm
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Question

Dribbler ends his dribble up during fast break because of his defender, the defender backs off, the dribbler throws the ball off of his backboard (not a shot attempt), runs and catches the rebound, starts a new dribble and drives the lane.

Saw a similar play in a game this week. It was borderline, but it kind of looked to me like he didn't so much shoot as throw it at the backboard in order to ricochet the ball to an open spot on the floor.

Now I know that the other team's backboard is considered part of the floor. But as I recall your own backboard is not.

So what is the call? I would have called traveling since he moved his pivot foot in order to collect the ricochet. Would I have been right?
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Old Sat Jan 14, 2006, 04:00pm
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but if he throws it off the backboard, he can't start his dribble again. Similarly, you can't try a pass, which bounces off another player, then come recover it to dribble again. You can simply catch the ball again, however.
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Old Sat Jan 14, 2006, 04:21pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by CaliOne
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if he throws it off the backboard, he can't start his dribble again. Similarly, you can't try a pass, which bounces off another player, then come recover it to dribble again. You can simply catch the ball again, however.
You're corrcted- you're wrong. Twice.

If the dribbler throws the ball off his backboard, then that's usually regarded as a shot. Judgement call- but how can anybody be 100% sure that it wasn't a shot? If it is a shot, it's also a loss of player and team control- which means that any player that recovers the ball can dribble, pass, shoot, etc. Note that it's a different call if you throw it off your opponent's backboard. Also, if the pass bounces off another player (on either team), player control was lost, even though team control wasn't. It's legal to dribble again. Case book play 9.5.3.
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Old Sat Jan 14, 2006, 04:26pm
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Cool

FINE BE THAT WAY. I can take it. That's why I'm here, to learn. Beyond that, the guy pretty much said it was clear that it was a throw and not a shot.
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Old Sat Jan 14, 2006, 04:31pm
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From the basketball rules fundamentals:

19. A ball which touches the front face or edges of the backboard is treated the same as touching the floor inbounds, except that when the ball touches the thrower's backboard, it does not constitute a part of a dribble.

The fact that it can't be considered a dribble leaves you with nothing to call it but a try.
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Old Sat Jan 14, 2006, 04:32pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by CaliOne
Beyond that, the guy pretty much said it was clear that it was a throw and not a shot.
It makes no difference.

If you throw the ball off your opponent's backboard, it's considered a dribble.

It's not considered a dribble to throw it off you're own backboard.

Since it's not a dribble, it's not an illegal dribble.

It's not traveling. With one exception, you MUST be holding the ball in order to travel.

So what's your call, if you don't think it's legal?
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Old Sun Jan 15, 2006, 01:50am
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Here's another play for my NFHS should make a clear ruling on this thread.
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Old Sun Jan 15, 2006, 11:35am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Here's another play for my NFHS should make a clear ruling on this thread.
Strangely, the NFHS had a clear ruling on this. Then, they cahnged the case play to mkae it less clear (at least to me).
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Old Sun Jan 15, 2006, 11:13pm
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If you throw it against the opponent's backboard, and intend to keep on dribbling, you better catch it with one hand (and not two!)and put it to the floor with the one hand continuing the dribble....or you'd have double dribble....Correct?
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Old Sun Jan 15, 2006, 11:20pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skarecrow
If you throw it against the opponent's backboard, and intend to keep on dribbling, you better catch it with one hand (and not two!)and put it to the floor with the one hand continuing the dribble....or you'd have double dribble....Correct?
Skarecrow -- Cute tag line.

You'd also better throw it up to the backboard with one hand. , and that throw had better be a bat, not a pass type throw. If you use two hands for either the throw to the backboard or the catch from it, or if the ball "comes to rest" for either part of the play, you've ended your dribble, and can't dribble again.
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Old Mon Jan 16, 2006, 02:47am
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Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Here's another play for my NFHS should make a clear ruling on this thread.
Strangely, the NFHS had a clear ruling on this. Then, they cahnged the case play to mkae it less clear (at least to me).
Agreed.

The following case play was altered in 2003-04:

2002-03 version:
4.15.4 SITUATION C: After dribbling and coming to a stop, A1 throws the ball: (a) against the opponent's backboard and catches the rebound; (b) against an official, immediately recovers the ball and dribbles again; or (c) against his/her own backboard, catches the rebound and dribbles again. RULING: A1 has violated in both (a) and (b). Throwing the ball against the opponent's backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. In (c), the action is legal as a player's own backboard is treated the same as touching the floor inbounds, but does not constitute a part of a dribble. (9-5)


2003-04 version (as well as the current version):
4.15.4 SITUATION C: After dribbling and coming to a stop, A1 throws the ball: (a) against the opponent's backboard and catches the rebound; (b) against an official, immediately recovers the ball and dribbles again; or (c) against his/her own backboard in an attempt to score (try), catches the rebound and dribbles again. RULING: A1 has violated in both (a) and (b). Throwing the ball against the opponent's backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. In (c), the action is legal. Once the ball is released on the try, there is no player or team control, therefore, A1 can recover the rebound and begin a dribble.


I put the changes the NFHS made to this play in red.
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Old Mon Jan 16, 2006, 11:21am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Here's another play for my NFHS should make a clear ruling on this thread.
Strangely, the NFHS had a clear ruling on this. Then, they cahnged the case play to mkae it less clear (at least to me).
Agreed.

The following case play was altered in 2003-04:

2002-03 version:
4.15.4 SITUATION C: After dribbling and coming to a stop, A1 throws the ball: (a) against the opponent's backboard and catches the rebound; (b) against an official, immediately recovers the ball and dribbles again; or (c) against his/her own backboard, catches the rebound and dribbles again. RULING: A1 has violated in both (a) and (b). Throwing the ball against the opponent's backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. In (c), the action is legal as a player's own backboard is treated the same as touching the floor inbounds, but does not constitute a part of a dribble. (9-5)


2003-04 version (as well as the current version):
4.15.4 SITUATION C: After dribbling and coming to a stop, A1 throws the ball: (a) against the opponent's backboard and catches the rebound; (b) against an official, immediately recovers the ball and dribbles again; or (c) against his/her own backboard in an attempt to score (try), catches the rebound and dribbles again. RULING: A1 has violated in both (a) and (b). Throwing the ball against the opponent's backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. In (c), the action is legal. Once the ball is released on the try, there is no player or team control, therefore, A1 can recover the rebound and begin a dribble.


I put the changes the NFHS made to this play in red.
Seems clearer to me. Why does it confuse you?
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 16, 2006, 11:44am
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
You'd also better throw it up to the backboard with one hand...
Hmmm....are you saying that you can't begin a dribble with two hands?
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 16, 2006, 11:53am
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
You'd also better throw it up to the backboard with one hand...
Hmmm....are you saying that you can't begin a dribble with two hands?
Good point. No, I meant that if he had already dribbled, and THEN threw the ball with two hands, the dribble would have ended. He said, "...and intend to keep on dribbling..." so I was thinking the throw was after some dribbling. Sorry to be unclear.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 16, 2006, 11:58am
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Here's another play for my NFHS should make a clear ruling on this thread.
Strangely, the NFHS had a clear ruling on this. Then, they cahnged the case play to mkae it less clear (at least to me).
Agreed.

The following case play was altered in 2003-04:

2002-03 version:
4.15.4 SITUATION C: After dribbling and coming to a stop, A1 throws the ball: (a) against the opponent's backboard and catches the rebound; (b) against an official, immediately recovers the ball and dribbles again; or (c) against his/her own backboard, catches the rebound and dribbles again. RULING: A1 has violated in both (a) and (b). Throwing the ball against the opponent's backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. In (c), the action is legal as a player's own backboard is treated the same as touching the floor inbounds, but does not constitute a part of a dribble. (9-5)


2003-04 version (as well as the current version):
4.15.4 SITUATION C: After dribbling and coming to a stop, A1 throws the ball: (a) against the opponent's backboard and catches the rebound; (b) against an official, immediately recovers the ball and dribbles again; or (c) against his/her own backboard in an attempt to score (try), catches the rebound and dribbles again. RULING: A1 has violated in both (a) and (b). Throwing the ball against the opponent's backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. In (c), the action is legal. Once the ball is released on the try, there is no player or team control, therefore, A1 can recover the rebound and begin a dribble.


I put the changes the NFHS made to this play in red.

It's more confusing because of the added words "in an attempt to score (try)".

Before, any throw off the backboard was legal. Now, perhaps, only a throw that's a try is legal. What do we do with a throw that's clearly not a try?


Seems clearer to me. Why does it confuse you?
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