The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 01, 2010, 05:53pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 6
Question Runner on 3rd; Batter walks, continues to second?

There's a runner at 3rd, with 1B and 2B empty. Batter/runner gets a walk and runs toward 1B, and turns to go toward 2B.

Does the batter/runner has to touch the white part of the first base bag in order to run toward second, or either part of the safety first base bag is good?

Does the first base fielder has to be out of the way, or can s/he be just by 1B ready to catch a throw from the pitcher?

Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 01, 2010, 07:28pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by yscleo View Post
There's a runner at 3rd, with 1B and 2B empty. Batter/runner gets a walk and runs toward 1B, and turns to go toward 2B.

Does the batter/runner has to touch the white part of the first base bag in order to run toward second, or either part of the safety first base bag is good?
Either

Quote:
Does the first base fielder has to be out of the way, or can s/he be just by 1B ready to catch a throw from the pitcher?
Does F3 have possesion of the ball or in the act of fielding a batted ball?
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 01, 2010, 09:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 6
No, F1 has the ball, and is watching the B/R running toward 1B and possibly turning toward 2B. F3 doesn't have the ball. So F3 needs to be away from 1B and the basepath toward 2B?
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 01, 2010, 10:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by yscleo View Post
No, F1 has the ball, and is watching the B/R running toward 1B and possibly turning toward 2B. F3 doesn't have the ball. So F3 needs to be away from 1B and the basepath toward 2B?
Those are the only two conditions in which a fielder may impede a runner. For NCAA, add "about to receive the ball" which means the ball must get to the defender before the runner.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 02, 2010, 09:00am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
ys is clearly not an umpire... I don't think he/she got your first point, Mike, when you tried to lead them to the answer on their own.

The first question is not a bad question.
The second is something every umpire should know, and it seems every coach/parent doesn't. I bet we (umpires) have to correct this 4-5 times a game the first few games of every season.

(Simplified for a non-umpire, with minor details removed) : Below NCAA, a fielder who is in the act of fielding a batted ball has right of way and must be avoided by runners. Other than that, NO fielder can be in a runner's basepath without the ball. Period. If such a fielder causes the runner to deviate or slow from the path THEY want to take, it's obstruction. And note that I didn't say baseLINE - I said path ... meaning the path the runner chooses to take.

And yes ... this means that every time F3 is standing on the bag (even just the inside corner) on a play where the batter rounds (or tries to round) first base, it's obstruction. Every time F5 is standing on 3rd as a runner from 2nd rounds for home (even if she doesn't GO home), it's obstruction.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 02, 2010, 02:46pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
(Simplified for a non-umpire, with minor details removed) : Below NCAA, a fielder who is in the act of fielding a batted ball has right of way and must be avoided by runners. Other than that, NO fielder can be in a runner's basepath without the ball. Period. If such a fielder causes the runner to deviate or slow from the path THEY want to take, it's obstruction. And note that I didn't say baseLINE - I said path ... meaning the path the runner chooses to take.

And yes ... this means that every time F3 is standing on the bag (even just the inside corner) on a play where the batter rounds (or tries to round) first base, it's obstruction. Every time F5 is standing on 3rd as a runner from 2nd rounds for home (even if she doesn't GO home), it's obstruction.

This should be given to every H.S. and youth fastpitch softball coach as well to every parent of a player at these levels. I have H.S. coaches ask me where their players are supposed to stand, and I tell the coaches that I can tell them (coaches) where they (players) cannot stand but they (coaches) have to teach their players where to stand.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 02, 2010, 06:12pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 6
Thanks for the responses.

Another question. Many B/R runs through the 1B, and then comes back to 1B. When they come back to 1B, the play ends and they need to stay on 1B.

If the B/R runs through 1B, turns around and comes toward 1B, B/R then decides to take off toward 2B. Does it matter how they take the path?

1. If they go through 1B at a slight angle, and is in fair territory, and in a continuation runs toward 2B, that's fine.

2. If B/R runs through 1B in straight line, turns 180 degrees around to head in straight line toward 1B, then just before touching 1B, takes off toward 2B, I suppose that's still ok.

3. If B/R runs touching the orange part through 1B at a slight angle to right and goes into foul territory, then comes back toward 1B, and before touching 1B takes off toward 2B, seems like that's also ok?

4. If the B/R runs through 1B and has a slight angle toward 2B, in fair territory, then turns to come back toward 1B. Before touching 1B, the B/R suddenly takes off toward 2B. So this is slightly different than 1. (which is a contuous run toward 2B), but is at first heading back toward 1B, before sudden turning to head toward 2B. Is that ok?
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 02, 2010, 07:27pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The 503
Posts: 785
Using NFHS (ASA might be similar):

What you have to keep in mind here is the look back rule (LBR). Once the B/R has touched 1B and the pitcher has the ball in the pitching circle without attempting a play on any runner, the LBR is in effect. With the rule in effect:

If the runner comes back to and touches 1B she must stay there.

If the runner is off a base, once she stops she must make a choice of which base to go towards. She cannot change direction after she makes the decision.

There are some rules that specifically cover a B/R overrunning 1B.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yscleo View Post
If B/R runs through 1B in straight line, turns 180 degrees around to head in straight line toward 1B, then just before touching 1B, takes off toward 2B, I suppose that's still ok.
If the pitcher has the ball in the circle before the B/R turns around, the B/R would have to return to 1B.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yscleo View Post
If B/R runs touching the orange part through 1B at a slight angle to right and goes into foul territory, then comes back toward 1B, and before touching 1B takes off toward 2B, seems like that's also ok?
If the pitcher has the ball in the circle before she turns toward foul territory, once she turns right she is committed to 1B.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yscleo View Post
If the B/R runs through 1B and has a slight angle toward 2B, in fair territory, then turns to come back toward 1B. Before touching 1B, the B/R suddenly takes off toward 2B. So this is slightly different than 1. (which is a contuous run toward 2B), but is at first heading back toward 1B, before sudden turning to head toward 2B. Is that ok?
If the pitcher has the ball in the circle before she turns back to 1B, she is committed to 1B.

I think I got this right but I will get corrected if I'm wrong...
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 02, 2010, 07:27pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Desoto, TX
Posts: 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by yscleo View Post
Thanks for the responses.

Another question. Many B/R runs through the 1B, and then comes back to 1B. When they come back to 1B, the play ends and they need to stay on 1B.

If the B/R runs through 1B, turns around and comes toward 1B, B/R then decides to take off toward 2B. Does it matter how they take the path?

1. If they go through 1B at a slight angle, and is in fair territory, and in a continuation runs toward 2B, that's fine.

2. If B/R runs through 1B in straight line, turns 180 degrees around to head in straight line toward 1B, then just before touching 1B, takes off toward 2B, I suppose that's still ok.

3. If B/R runs touching the orange part through 1B at a slight angle to right and goes into foul territory, then comes back toward 1B, and before touching 1B takes off toward 2B, seems like that's also ok?

4. If the B/R runs through 1B and has a slight angle toward 2B, in fair territory, then turns to come back toward 1B. Before touching 1B, the B/R suddenly takes off toward 2B. So this is slightly different than 1. (which is a contuous run toward 2B), but is at first heading back toward 1B, before sudden turning to head toward 2B. Is that ok?
You might want to let us know where/who is in possession of the ball as well.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 02, 2010, 08:09pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by okla21fan View Post
You might want to let us know where/who is in possession of the ball as well.
The catcher had already thrown the ball back to the pitch, in the circle.

I'm also thinking the best way to defend the way this runner going to 2B, trying to draw a throw to allow the runner at 3B to run home.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 02, 2010, 10:24pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Drives me crazy when I see the ball go back to pitcher, BR rounds 1st, heads to 2nd, and the defense does nothing. If you're at a low level or young level, throw the friggin ball to 2nd as she passes where 2B normally plays and get the easy out. You need outs more than that 1 run costs you at low levels.

At any decent level 12U or up, fielders should easily be able to throw from 2nd to home without much of a problem... some should even be good enough to get the easy out and STILL throw home in time.

Did a 14U tourney 2 weeks ago and saw this twice. Both teams were fully good enough to get an out on this play. Worse ... WAY worse ... one of them happened with 2 outs. GET AN OUT when the offense does something stupid.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 03, 2010, 10:35am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Pace, FL
Posts: 653
Send a message via AIM to argodad
Quote:
Originally Posted by yscleo View Post
Thanks for the responses.

Another question. Many B/R runs through the 1B, and then comes back to 1B. When they come back to 1B, the play ends and they need to stay on 1B.

If the B/R runs through 1B, turns around and comes toward 1B, B/R then decides to take off toward 2B. Does it matter how they take the path?

1. If they go through 1B at a slight angle, and is in fair territory, and in a continuation runs toward 2B, that's fine.

2. If B/R runs through 1B in straight line, turns 180 degrees around to head in straight line toward 1B, then just before touching 1B, takes off toward 2B, I suppose that's still ok.

3. If B/R runs touching the orange part through 1B at a slight angle to right and goes into foul territory, then comes back toward 1B, and before touching 1B takes off toward 2B, seems like that's also ok?

4. If the B/R runs through 1B and has a slight angle toward 2B, in fair territory, then turns to come back toward 1B. Before touching 1B, the B/R suddenly takes off toward 2B. So this is slightly different than 1. (which is a contuous run toward 2B), but is at first heading back toward 1B, before sudden turning to head toward 2B. Is that ok?
Seth PDX gave you the answers for NFHS and ASA. In NCAA, 2. is also legal.
__________________
Larry
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ASA Batter-Runner INT IRISHMAFIA Softball 7 Tue Mar 02, 2010 08:04pm
tag on batter/runner shipwreck Softball 30 Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:28am
Batter walks and overruns 1st base Hi Neighbor Softball 9 Tue May 02, 2006 01:36pm
Runner hit by batted ball, scoring runner, batter wfwbb Baseball 12 Sat Jul 17, 2004 03:12pm
Batter/runner Wclapper Softball 5 Sun Mar 12, 2000 03:33pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:32am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1