Working Alone.. one of those plays

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by charliej47

I called three strikes on him and he did not like any of the pitches. He got argumentative on the third call. I called for the next batter and he refused to leave the batters box. I ejected him and informed the Head Coach the player had to leave.

The HC walked him to the dugout and the player started throwing things out onto the field. He came back out of the dugout.

Game over. And leave through the VC's dugout.

This is one of the main reasons I quit doing adults ... but from this and other comments, you have a league that's WAY out of bounds regarding what it expects from it's players.

[charliej47]

Mike,

In southwest Ohio except for the finals in tourney games we all do solo for Sow-pitch at all ages.

I have worked more than 5000 slow-pitch ASA/USSSA/NSA games over the years and ejections were only mentioned in men's games.

I still do youth and church league slow-pitch games but have stopped doing any local men/co-ed leagues. I primarily do ASA/USSA/NFHS fast-pitch now.

[JefferMC]

Originally Posted by BlitzkriegBob

There's no way F8 should be blocking your view, but I also have a hard time seeing how F6 would be blocking you since normally they would be out acting as a cut-off or relay.

I think he mentioned where F8 was only to explain that the throw was coming straight towards him from F8 to F4.

F6 is apparently in the infield, he described it as a "sharp single up the middle", so no time or need for F6 to go out to cutoff, if there had been time for that, R2 would have been camped on 2B, I don't care how slow she is. So F6 is blocking his view of F4 and 2B in general. F6 probably should have been moving to cutoff the throw home, but apparently did not.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by snorman75

So working alone modified game. Bases loaded, no outs. Girl hits s sharp single up the middle. Runner from second is coming home to score. So I am holding up the third baseline waiting for a throw to home.
OK, my problem.... The short stop, then the second baseman, standing on second, and the center fielder are in PERFECT alignment. I can not even see the second baseman take the throw.
P.S. I know I am not leaving the runners coming home, so I am never going to get any closer to second.

Working alone sucks, but I would question heading up the third base line on a ball to the OF. Your better angle is going to be up the first base line MOST of the time. Especially for watching multiple bases. From up the 3BL, your peripheral angle to see home and 3rd at the same time is huge. From up the 1BL, it's tiny and you're still in a great spot for a call at home.

That said, you can get straightlined from ANYWHERE. The key is to see it coming and move. You should try to never be in the same line as the throw, first off.

And then ... with THAT said - you could still be straightlined. So to answer that part of your question, I believe you need to take everything you can into account and give it proper weight. I would have been relying on sound on this play if possible - you can usually hear the ball hit the glove and see the runner - and make a call from that. I would heavily discount the reaction of the fielder unless they react as if the runner was safe... and I would discount the reaction of the runner unless they react as if they were out.

[snorman75]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Working alone sucks, but I would question heading up the third base line on a ball to the OF. Your better angle is going to be up the first base line MOST of the time. Especially for watching multiple bases. From up the 3BL, your peripheral angle to see home and 3rd at the same time is huge. From up the 1BL, it's tiny and you're still in a great spot for a call at home.

That said, you can get straightlined from ANYWHERE. The key is to see it coming and move. You should try to never be in the same line as the throw, first off.

And then ... with THAT said - you could still be straightlined. So to answer that part of your question, I believe you need to take everything you can into account and give it proper weight. I would have been relying on sound on this play if possible - you can usually hear the ball hit the glove and see the runner - and make a call from that. I would heavily discount the reaction of the fielder unless they react as if the runner was safe... and I would discount the reaction of the runner unless they react as if they were out.

Love this idea!!! I am going to try this.. being a basketball official also, I will not lie I just can't put players behind me. I think being up the first baseline will greatly lessen the chance of being strait lined. But no way can I put home plate behind me. For me you have to see the run score and now you have turned your back to the whole field and the ball.

As for how this all set up, it was modified, so F6 was not thinking about cutting a throw off, F8 had already gunned one home the last inning in same situation, so my read was no question coming home. Also in that this was the first time F4 covered second all game...

Last point.. I know our schools and leagues are really hurting for money. We better get use to going one man games. Our baseball board does one man games at the JV level. How I do not know, but I feel for those guys.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Working alone sucks, but I would question heading up the third base line on a ball to the OF. Your better angle is going to be up the first base line MOST of the time. Especially for watching multiple bases. From up the 3BL, your peripheral angle to see home and 3rd at the same time is huge. From up the 1BL, it's tiny and you're still in a great spot for a call at home.
That said, you can get straightlined from ANYWHERE. The key is to see it coming and move. You should try to never be in the same line as the throw, first off.

And then ... with THAT said - you could still be straightlined. So to answer that part of your question, I believe you need to take everything you can into account and give it proper weight. I would have been relying on sound on this play if possible - you can usually hear the ball hit the glove and see the runner - and make a call from that. I would heavily discount the reaction of the fielder unless they react as if the runner was safe... and I would discount the reaction of the runner unless they react as if they were out.

I would tend to disagree... with MULTIPLE runners you are MUCH more likely to have a play at home or third than any other base one a ball to the outfield. WHY would you take yourself away from that by going up the 1st base line. Go to the holding area between 3b and Home... and react from there...

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

I would tend to disagree... with MULTIPLE runners you are MUCH more likely to have a play at home or third than any other base one a ball to the outfield. WHY would you take yourself away from that by going up the 1st base line. Go to the holding area between 3b and Home... and react from there...

Not to mention the importance of the call in prioritized order. I'd rather miss a call at 2B than at the plate, but I'd also rather miss a call at 1B than at 2B.

You are only one umpire and you are NOT going to see every angle of every play. You could be working a 6-umpire game and still not see every angle of every play.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

I would tend to disagree... with MULTIPLE runners you are MUCH more likely to have a play at home or third than any other base one a ball to the outfield. WHY would you take yourself away from that by going up the 1st base line. Go to the holding area between 3b and Home... and react from there...

Several reasons. First off... walking up the first base line a bit instead of third takes you no further from home - your ability to be in position for a play there is at worst identical from the 1st base side as the 3rd base side. Second, if you're up the 3BL in or near the holding area (a great place to be if you have a partner, a horrible place to be alone) - you can't possibly see what's going on at both 3rd base and home. From the 1st base side, that's easy. Third, along the first base line there's no chance of you getting in the way of a runner or a throw, whereas along the 3BL there's a chance of both (more likely the runner, obviously).

The better proximity to third doing what you suggest is not enough to outweigh all of those things. It's been said here multiple times that angle is FAR more important ... doubly so when working alone. You have great angles on all 3 possible bases where plays might happen when you're up the 1BL, and it's far easier to see all touches, all possible OBS's from there than up the 3BL.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Several reasons. First off... walking up the first base line a bit instead of third takes you no further from home - your ability to be in position for a play there is at worst identical from the 1st base side as the 3rd base side.

Distance isn't the issue[/quote]

Second, if you're up the 3BL in or near the holding area (a great place to be if you have a partner, a horrible place to be alone) - you can't possibly see what's going on at both 3rd base and home. From the 1st base side, that's easy

Actually, it isn't as difficult as you think as it all depends on where you are in the holding zone. On 1BL, you are not even going to have a shot to see the runners touch all the bases as I will in the holding zone. Been doing this for 44 years, so I pretty much has this part down. And, yes, some field restraints may force me closer to the line than I want to be and I adjust, but not by going into the field.[quote]

Third, along the first base line there's no chance of you getting in the way of a runner or a throw, whereas along the 3BL there's a chance of both (more likely the runner, obviously).

Really? How is that going to happen in foul territory away from the throw whereas to get into a decent position for a play at home or 3rd, you have no choice to move into a possible conflict if the fielder doesn't go to the obvious play.

The better proximity to third doing what you suggest is not enough to outweigh all of those things. It's been said here multiple times that angle is FAR more important ... doubly so when working alone. You have great angles on all 3 possible bases where plays might happen when you're up the 1BL, and it's far easier to see all touches, all possible OBS's from there than up the 3BL.

And how well does that work on a ball to the right side?

Think I will stay with the manual.

[MD Longhorn]

Where does one find this 1-man mechanic manual?

[DeputyUICHousto]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

I would tend to disagree... with MULTIPLE runners you are MUCH more likely to have a play at home or third than any other base one a ball to the outfield. WHY would you take yourself away from that by going up the 1st base line. Go to the holding area between 3b and Home... and react from there...

of there being a play at the plate with multiple runners on base on a fly ball or ground ball to the outfield? Almost zero! Get out into the middle of the infield because the more likely play with be at 2nd or 3rd base.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

of there being a play at the plate with multiple runners on base on a fly ball or ground ball to the outfield? Almost zero! Get out into the middle of the infield because the more likely play with be at 2nd or 3rd base.

I agree, but the main reason I'm staying foul (or nearly foul) and trying to get my best angle on 2nd and 3rd is so that I can still see the touch of home.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

of there being a play at the plate with multiple runners on base on a fly ball or ground ball to the outfield? Almost zero! Get out into the middle of the infield because the more likely play with be at 2nd or 3rd base.

I (and others) couldnt disagree with you more... with MULTIPLE runners.. lets say first and second... it is MUCH more likely that youre going to have an issue at third of the plate... and you DONT want to be in a position to where you have to GUESS at either one of those....

[AtlUmpSteve]

snorman 75;

A few points to make here, First off, you and the rest of your New York area buddies need to understand that ONLY YOU call a middle school game "modified". When you post "modified" on a national site, everyone else assumes you mean what the ASA and national term is; modified is an adult game similar to fastpitch, with some pitching restrictions. So, all the people that were outraged about you working one-man didn't understand that this is a 6th to 8th grade middle school game, generally of 12B caliber play. As such, while one-man isn't ideal, it is generally workable by anyone with reasonable skills.

Second, never guess an out. If there is some overriding factor that leads you to believe "out" is the right call, fine, but a pure guess is unacceptable. If you didn't see an out, the runner is safe. As an aside, I use the similarity to law to understand that you can often not be 100% sure; but use the civil requirement of a "preponderance of evidence" when making your call, require "beyond a reasonable doubt" before suggesting to a partner that s/he change a call already made. What you describe meets neither of these, so "safe" should have been the call.

Finally, when you ask how you could have avoided the problem, you were told you had to leave the plate area (where there was no play), to get where you would have an angle and be nearer the apparent plays. You responded that your basketball background told you that you coluld let no one get behind you. Well, you are destined to repeat, and will never fix the problem if you stick with what didn't (and won't) work. Stay in the same place next time, and you will have the same problem. You must get to where you can see all likely plays, and your priority is THE MOST LIKELY play. If you had headed to the first base side of the pitching circle, you would have been able to look back to see the lead runner(s) touch home, and could have worked back toward home if a play developed there. At the same time, you would have had a better angle (and the ability to close to any possible play) at any other base.

So, if you want help, listen to the suggestions, and buy into the advice of those who know what they are talking about. If you want us to tell you it is OK that you didn't get a good position when you could have, you won't hear that here, as we are our own worst critics.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

snorman 75;

Finally, when you ask how you could have avoided the problem, you were told you had to leave the plate area (where there was no play), to get where you would have an angle and be nearer the apparent plays. .... You must get to where you can see all likely plays, and your priority is THE MOST LIKELY play.

I'm going to take a different angle then Steve. I'm not entering and crossing the infield. I've seen too many times as a player and umpire where he goes running out into the infield for the MOST LIKELY play only to have it go elsewhere and damn near take one in the head.

That doesn't mean I am standing at the plate. I will move to the best angle to possible plays and only when I can determine where the ball is going will I consider entering the field without crossing a runners path to do so.