Adjustments?

[clev1967]

Only serious replies please.
What kind of adjustments to your positioning do you make behind the plate on a batter crowding the plate and a catcher setting up inside?

[Dakota]

I raise up more to clear the catcher's head and move out more over the plate until I have a clear view.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I raise up more to clear the catcher's head and move out more over the plate until I have a clear view.

Pretty much the same here.
I adjust as I can up a little and over.

I have to admit that sometimes I will not move so much that I can see the actual realease of the ball.
I'm not sure how incorrect that is, but I don't feel comfortable getting too far from my normal slot.

Having said that, I am still always in a position where I can pick up the ball in front of the plate, see the plate and see the ball into the glove.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by clev1967

Only serious replies please.
What kind of adjustments to your positioning do you make behind the plate on a batter crowding the plate and a catcher setting up inside?

There are two trains of thought.

One is, as noted, to stay the slot and move up, sacrificing the bottom of the zone. This is an obvious move when the catcher moves on the pitch.

Another is, when time permits, to move inside off the plate and sacrifice the outside.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

There are two trains of thought.

One is, as noted, to stay the slot and move up, sacrificing the bottom of the zone. This is an obvious move when the catcher moves on the pitch.

Another is, when time permits, to move inside off the plate and sacrifice the outside.

Mike...your thoughts (an those of others, please), on sacrificing the outside corner. I've been struggling a bit myself with the same sitch in the OP. I'm not at all questioning the move to inside off the plate, it's another option to utilize for sure.

Not intending to hijack the thread, but I guess my question for everyone is, do you personally (when having to make any adjustment behind the plate) feel more comfortable, particularly at the higher levels, sacrificing the bottom of the zone or the outside corner? Upsides/downsides (aside from the obvious one) in the choice you make. I (we) all realize there is no right/wrong answer...it's a matter of personal preference, confidence/comfort level and experience.

[Andy]

I would rather sacrifice the bottom of the zone. If a catcher is blocking me out where I have to adjust, any borderline pitches become balls. If it's the batter, they are strikes. If the catcher asks, I will tell her I can't get a good look because she is blocking me and forcing me to adjust to a position where I may not be able to see the whole zone as well as I would like.

I won't tell a catcher where to set up, just the potential results if she sets up in certain spots. One of the best phrases I ever heard to tell a catcher was...Catch, help me call strikes!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Mike...your thoughts (an those of others, please), on sacrificing the outside corner. I've been struggling a bit myself with the same sitch in the OP. I'm not at all questioning the move to inside off the plate, it's another option to utilize for sure.

Not intending to hijack the thread, but I guess my question for everyone is, do you personally (when having to make any adjustment behind the plate) feel more comfortable, particularly at the higher levels, sacrificing the bottom of the zone or the outside corner? Upsides/downsides (aside from the obvious one) in the choice you make. I (we) all realize there is no right/wrong answer...it's a matter of personal preference, confidence/comfort level and experience.

Sacrificing the outside is an assumption, but if you are trained and work from one position, any rare movement to an alternative position would most likely, IMO, cause some type of mental realignment which I don't think can be consistent.

I have a suspicion that this sneaked in from baseball where I believe the catcher's movement is restricted by a smaller catcher's box.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Andy

I would rather sacrifice the bottom of the zone. If a catcher is blocking me out where I have to adjust, any borderline pitches become balls. If it's the batter, they are strikes. If the catcher asks, I will tell her I can't get a good look because she is blocking me and forcing me to adjust to a position where I may not be able to see the whole zone as well as I would like.

I won't tell a catcher where to set up, just the potential results if she sets up in certain spots. One of the best phrases I ever heard to tell a catcher was...Catch, help me call strikes!

I used to use (and teach) that method, but it has been made clear in NCAA, at least, that we are expected and required to adjust, that we cannot tell the catcher she is blocking us on a consistent basis. Telling an NCAA D1 catcher (or coach; she will tell the coach immediately) that is an almost instant way to resign from that conference, is my observation.

So, my response and reaction is a definitive "it depends". I do not wish to give up my slot, and the consistency on the corners I want it to give me (or help me, if I am struggling). I strive for a true and full corner plus river, both sides of the plate, and am willing to be considered to have missed a pitch up or down, but not in or out.

If the catcher is shifting and crowding, I will set up higher, only, so as to not lose the corners, and attempt to adjust the bottom of the zone as best I can (that is, after all, one of the judgments necessary based on the varying batter sizes, anyway, and isn't ever as locked in as the corners).

If it is the batter crowding the plate and hanging over, I prefer to keep my feet where they belong, and lean a little early to pick up the pitch, and work back to my standard location during the pitch, so the pitch doesn't "explode" on me at the plate. I can assure you that if the batter is crowding, and the inside pitch doesn't hit her, and is appropriate height-wise, it is a called strike, even if it is a bit further in than the actual corner!!

In ball less defined than top level NCAA, I will stretch that inside corner (when I can) to keep the batters off the plate. But, can't do it in NCAA D1, and certainly many batters will NOT back off, would rather turn into the pitch that misses the exact corner inside for the free base.

That's just me, and how I handle the various causes.

[Steve M]

I tend to move up - and maybe lean just a little as Steve said. I try not to give up my slot position. AND, when I do have to adjust my position at all, I also tend to slow down just a bit more - just to make sure the timing is impecable.

[luvthegame]

Just to ramp this up a little....


The "slot" is a term that should become extinct for practical purposes ! The NCAA changed the verbiage this year in the manual to... between the catcher and the batter. As long as you can see the strike zone.

The closer an umpire can set up to the middle of the plate and still see the corners of the plate and strike zone accurately...ie...bottom of sternum (NCAA) and knees..and both corners...PHYSICALLY..VISUALLY SEE....the more consistent and accurate they can be. It only makes sense...???

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by luvthegame

The "slot" is a term that should become extinct for practical purposes ! The NCAA changed the verbiage this year in the manual to... between the catcher and the batter. As long as you can see the strike zone.

Well, there ya go! The NCAA changed it, so the rest of the world should follow suit.

The closer an umpire can set up to the middle of the plate and still see the corners of the plate and strike zone accurately...ie...bottom of sternum (NCAA) and knees..and both corners...PHYSICALLY..VISUALLY SEE....the more consistent and accurate they can be. It only makes sense...???

Why does it make sense?

While I don't disagree with this in theory, I don't think it makes sense in practice. If you want the most accurate position as it relates to the plate, would that not be directly above the catcher?

"Seeing" the corners of the plate is not the same as being capable of consistently recognizing the relationship of the ball to the portion of the plate on the side away from your position. Anyone who has attended a school has seen the ball on a stick routine (especially with Walt Sparks) which demonstrates where the umpire "thinks" the ball is as opposed to its actual location.

No matter where the umpire sets up, he is always going to sacrifice one boundary of the zone or another which means the umpire is going to have to determine a call on some pitches with a best guess deteremined by their perception of that border. Since the top and bottom of the zone is not going to be the same consistently, it only makes sense, at least to me, that the umpire lock in on one side of the zone and "know" where the other side of that zone is. If you set up as prescribed in the slot, you "know" the outside border is ALWAYS going to be 17" to the outside.

To me, that will at least give the umpire a chance of being consistent. Following the catcher toward the outside of the plate would mean the umpire's mind would have to recalculate the allowance their head has moved across the plate, subtract that from the previous allowance made for the width of the strike zone from the original spot and still see the pitch and make a best guess of whether the pitch actually crossed a portion of the plate. I have no doubt that there are umpires that can accomplish this fete, but far from a majority.

The catchers and coaches DO know where the umpire is supposed to be and will make every attempt to let the umpire see the pitch. Yes, we all know there are those who don't want to hear it (as has already be pointed out), but it is what it is. Hell, even in SP most know to stay out of your way. Point being that if the umpire starts moving around behind the plate, how is that catcher ever going to be able to offer ANY form of consideration?

Adjustments for a tough situation, that just has to happen. Otherwise, I think the umpire is good right where they are.

Strictly personal opinion. We are still allow to have those, right?

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by luvthegame

Just to ramp this up a little....


The "slot" is a term that should become extinct for practical purposes ! The NCAA changed the verbiage this year in the manual to... between the catcher and the batter. As long as you can see the strike zone.

The closer an umpire can set up to the middle of the plate and still see the corners of the plate and strike zone accurately...ie...bottom of sternum (NCAA) and knees..and both corners...PHYSICALLY..VISUALLY SEE....the more consistent and accurate they can be. It only makes sense...???

First:
That is not an accurate statement....assuming that you are referencing the 2010 CCA Softball Umpires Manual, the NCAA still uses the term SLOT to describe the area between the "catcher's inside shoulder and the batter when she assumes her natural stance, and the catcher is in her normal crouched position behind the plate."

Section 4-Definition of Terms (Pg.44), SLOT.
I won't rewrite the entire definition here, but I will point out that the definition is shaded, which indicates language has been changed in someway from last year's manual. So while the NCAA has changed verbiage within their definition of slot, they have not taken the term SLOT out of their mechanics.
Second:
What we're trying to share with each other in this thread, is how we as umpires handle the adjustments that we find we have to make from time to time during the course of the game. I'm really not concerned with what an umpire's manual from the NCAA or any other fast pitch governing body has to say about the subject.

I want to hear from other umpires, their thoughts, reasoning, etc. on the subject based on their experiences over the years...in the heat of the game. No manual is going to help you out when you're getting "squeezed" by the position old the batter and/or catcher, you can't see a particular part of the strike zone, and you've got some pitcher throwing BB's up there that are just exploding on you as they reach the plate....all this plus it's a close, tight game.

FWIW....I've found most of the replies to be extremely helpful. Guys here have offered some great suggestions, and have raised some points that I had not previously given any thought to.

[clev1967]

Thanks to all of the posts so far, it is nice to have a serious helpful conversation.
Replies are kind of what I expected, each has their own way of dealing with being "squeezed" and no one way is a surefire solution.
Personally, I stay in and get a little lower- under the batters hands and feel I can see the pitch sooner this way. Not sure it is the best but has been most comfortable for me so far. I have not tried to go over the top of the catcher but will when I have a chance. Always felt like I would be a sitting duck that way.

[argodad]

Originally Posted by luvthegame

Just to ramp this up a little....


The "slot" is a term that should become extinct for practical purposes ! The NCAA changed the verbiage this year in the manual to... between the catcher and the batter. As long as you can see the strike zone.

Not true, luv. "Slot" is defined in detail on page 44 of the CCA manual.

[luvthegame]

Originally Posted by argodad

Not true, luv. "Slot" is defined in detail on page 44 of the CCA manual.

I didn't say the definition was changed...the practical application of the slot and how to use it was expanded allowing for more flexibility (based on body type...different stances...etc...) to make sure you can actually see the entire strike zone! "If you cannot...adjust so that you can"

It was written in grey....because it is different than in the past....it is more flexible...if you can umpire beyond the black and white.