No Advantage - Spirit of the Rule

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

You have few options.

1) Call the out, as it technically violates.
2) Say you didn't see it, can't call what you didn't see. Hear some grief, but if you can support that possibility (more specifically to a momentary step off to tie a shoe or pull up a sock or knee pad), that might be your best answer.
3) Say you called time (needed to sweep a base or something equally foolish), so it didn't happen during live play.
4) Say you or your partner put the runner in jeopardy by changing or delaying a call.

It (#4) is the only legal way during live play to cover it up. You cannot use "spirit of the rule" which contradicts the rule. Only you and your partner (and a UIC) can know you really didn't put her in jeopardy; but if you are determined to protect her, and can't claim you didn't see it or called time, this may get you some grief, but it is generally protest proof (Mike may see through it, other UIC's may not like that explanation, but it passes muster if you think you could/should have ruled more clearly and timely).

Yes, that is true and I don't think anyone has suggested getting too technical. And pulling the stunts Steve notes above may get you past some coaches, but not the smart ones and they will only get you off the field. As noted, an UIC may not see this as a positive and it could reflect in the rating, but that is not be the primary problem.

Rant on!

I think the biggest problem is umpires taking it upon themselves to alter the rules to satisfy their beliefs or just to make their life easier. The teams pay to have their games officiated by a certain set of rules. As umpires, we receive specific direction how to apply rules and handle interpretations.

Umpires often receive special instruction at some tournaments or games that often employs common sense and, yes, at times they are told to prioritize some rules and be dicreet calling others. And that is okay because that adjustment is being made by an authority who is assigned to do so, but even then I have never been told to ignore a rule.

GAGA umpires are often the type that hedge and this will usually win over a coach until the umpire's decision to ignore certain rules affects his/her team in a negative manner.

When the umpire who does their job as directed works these teams, everything becomes suspect because that ISN'T how they do it at home. Then you end up like SteveMs friend from Ohio who believes everyone at this tournament were the biggest idiots and sole purpose was to screw his team because we didn't do it they way it was done "back home".

I guess the bottom line is that it just comes down to one word, integrity. You don't like a rule, work to get it changed, don't just ignore it. If you don't like it that much, do the game and the rest of us a favor, find another game 'cause it just isn't worth the headaches for any of us.

Rant off!

[ronald]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Dave:
In a word...no. I don't think that anyone who responded to the OP advocating the point that you have to call the runner out as LBR/LBE is looking to be an OOO.
You're post is kind of mixing apples and oranges. The sitch in the OP is quite different than the type of technical LBR/LBE sitches you referenced. The point that I will go back to is this: what do the governing bodies of the rule code that we're playing under, or the sanctioning league/conference, or the assigning board, or tournament directors, want us to do when we observe the type of technical LBR/LBE violation you described in your post. When we pass (as most of us would) on calling the runner out what is our supporting rule, interpretation, directive, etc. should we have a DC demanding an out call?

In my neck of the woods, I can't speak for NFHS as I'm not on the local board. However, at the annual clinic for my college assigning board, we were directed to NOT make LBR/LBE out calls in the conferences we work when we observe these type of technical "off the base" sitches. That's our supporting directive should a DC get into it with us for not calling the out.
Now, runners being dumb (as in the OP), or the sitches described by Radio and Dakota...OUT....no question, no umpire discretion.

I'm curious as to ASA's feelings on this. While I'm a registered ASA umpire, unfortunately, in my local area we have no ASA FP, and on a state level, (for whatever reason), our ASA "senior management" is not very proactive in the area of umpire education/training. So if any of you "in the know" ASA FP guys/gals out there can give me the approved ASA interp on this it would be appreciated.
Irish?? AtlUmpSteve??
Thanks

KJ.

This was specifically addressed at the Advanced FP camp last year. The shifting of the weight and loss of contact is not a violation.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by ronald

KJ.

This was specifically addressed at the Advanced FP camp last year. The shifting of the weight and loss of contact is not a violation.

Not to anybody with any sense it's not, but it is against the strict letter of the rule.
________
Volcano video review

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by ronald

KJ.

This was specifically addressed at the Advanced FP camp last year. The shifting of the weight and loss of contact is not a violation.

Appreciate the info...thanks.
KJ