spirit of the rule

[OHBBREF]

The Game:
Quarter Final Game AAU National Tournament 15 Under Division 1 NFHS Rules.
Score: Team A 42 Team B 40
Time: 0:54 to start the play.

Scenario:
Team A had cut the lead from 8 to a tie over the last several possessions with great defense and good scoring opportunities. Team B just took a two point lead again on a put back after being forced into a bad shot.

The play:
After the basket by team B - team A under back court pressure inbounds the ball, there is man to man pressure in the back court, with the ball being advanced casually by A1 under pressure between the FT line and top of the key.

Player A2 in the front court opposite side makes a baseline cut to the table side and goes out of bounds under the basket and returns inbounds while the ball is still in the back court.

The rule: NFHS

Rule 9 Violations and Penalties
SECTION 3 OUT OF BOUNDS
ART. 1 . . . A player shall not cause the ball to go out of bounds.
ART. 2 . . . A player shall not leave the floor for an unauthorized reason.
NOTE: The dribbler has committed a violation if he/she steps on or outside a boundary, even though he/she is not touching the ball while he/she is out of bounds.
PENALTY: (Section 3) The ball is dead when the violation occurs and is awarded to the opponents for a throw-in from the designated out-of-bounds spot nearest the violation. (See 6-7-9 Exception 4)


here is what happened:
With the ball still in the backcourt under pressure near the FT line/top of the key opposite, the player clearly went OOB with knowledge to make it to the other side of the floor.

The lead official made the violation call as soon as the player crossed the lane, I am not sure he was even inbounds yet the whistle blew.

Was it the right call by rule? in the literal interpretation of the rule - Yes!

Do you make this call?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

The play:
After the basket by team B - team A under back court pressure inbounds the ball, there is man to man pressure in the back court, with the ball being advanced casually by A1 under pressure between the FT line and top of the key.

Player A2 in the front court opposite side makes a baseline cut to the table side and goes out of bounds under the basket and returns inbounds while the ball is still in the back court.

The rule: NFHS

Rule 9 Violations and Penalties
SECTION 3 OUT OF BOUNDS
ART. 1 . . . A player shall not cause the ball to go out of bounds.
ART. 2 . . . A player shall not leave the floor for an unauthorized reason.
NOTE: The dribbler has committed a violation if he/she steps on or outside a boundary, even though he/she is not touching the ball while he/she is out of bounds.
PENALTY: (Section 3) The ball is dead when the violation occurs and is awarded to the opponents for a throw-in from the designated out-of-bounds spot nearest the violation. (See 6-7-9 Exception 4)


here is what happened:
With the ball still in the backcourt under pressure near the FT line/top of the key opposite, the player clearly went OOB with knowledge to make it to the other side of the floor.

The lead official made the violation call as soon as the player crossed the lane, I am not sure he was even inbounds yet the whistle blew.

Was it the right call by rule? in the literal interpretation of the rule - Yes!

Do you make this call?

Great call! Baseline cuts are the main reason this rule is in place; regardless of where the ball is.

[chartrusepengui]

great call and yes, I'd make it.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

The Game:
the player clearly went OOB with knowledge to make it to the other side of the floor.

This is the only relevant portion of your case play.

Everything else is just noise.

[truerookie]

No brainer, good call.

[jdw3018]

I tend to agree with the others - but your crew darn sure better not have ignored it any other time it happened during the game...

[Camron Rust]

I'm going to disagree...

If that's all there is to it, I'm not making that call....not with the ball 70' away being casually walked up the floor. That is not the kind of play this rule was made for.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'm going to disagree...

If that's all there is to it, I'm not making that call....not with the ball 70' away being casually walked up the floor. That is not the kind of play this rule was made for.

I don't know if I'm picking the dirty end of this stick if they are not gaining an advantage. If the ball is in the frontcourt at the top of the key, you bet I'm calling it. But if the ball is in backcourt and the player is not gaining an advantage, I would have to see the play first. For instance, was the defender screened as well? If the defender is still on the offender's hip, I might let it go and warn him not to go out of bounds like he just did. Did he go a few steps out? Did he go 12 feet out of bounds, out the gym door, and back in on the other side? There are too many what-if's to make a judgment IMO

-Josh

[Adam]

I can see the use of judgment here, and I agree if you make this call, you'd better not have ignored it earlier in the game. That said, just because the ball is that far away doesn't mean the offense can't gain an advantage. Could be a press breaker designed to get A2 free for a pass.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I can see the use of judgment here, and I agree if you make this call, you'd better not have ignored it earlier in the game. That said, just because the ball is that far away doesn't mean the offense can't gain an advantage. Could be a press breaker designed to get A2 free for a pass.

Agreed absolutely!

-Josh

[Back In The Saddle]

With less than a minute to play, I don't want to make any call that isn't either consistent with what we have already called or so obvious and/or advantageous as to be a no-brainer call in the first minute of the game.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I can see the use of judgment here, and I agree if you make this call, you'd better not have ignored it earlier in the game. That said, just because the ball is that far away doesn't mean the offense can't gain an advantage. Could be a press breaker designed to get A2 free for a pass.

Should be easy enough to tell if that is the case...no need to hurry with the whistle until the pass is in flight (or even until it merely appears that A1 is trying to make the pass). If A1 continues pounding nails in the backcourt, save the whistle.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Should be easy enough to tell if that is the case...no need to hurry with the whistle until the pass is in flight (or even until it merely appears that A1 is trying to make the pass). If A1 continues pounding nails in the backcourt, save the whistle.

Except that the NFHS instruction has been to whistle the violation when the player leaves the floor.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Except that the NFHS instruction has been to whistle the violation when the player leaves the floor.

As usual, look at the case plays provided for insight into what they're thinking...understand the intent and purpose of the rule as is stated in the preface to the rulebook. The point of this rule is to keep a player/team from using the OOB area for thier advantage....extending the playing court beyond the lines.

If what the player is doing doesn't have that effect and is not an attempt to have that effect, it is not relevant. The point about "when" the violation occurs is relevant with regards to ordering relative to other possible actions. If it takes you a couple seconds to realize the violation, fine, the rule merely establishes when it occurred. This is not unlike a dribbler who has ended the dribble subsequently pushing a ball to the floor in what may be a pass or another dribble....we wait to see who touches it next to decide what the action was....but the violation, if their is one, occurred on the release.

If there is a possible play to the player and the player is making the run to get open and runs OOB around a screen that put the defender out of the play, call it.

If there is no "play" and they're running to the other side of the court because they decided they'd like to be on the other side our is just running around or they gain nothing by going OOB (a clear and better path was avalailable just inbounds), let it go....especially if it is in the last minute of what sound like was a good game.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If that's all there is to it, I'm not making that call....not with the ball 70' away being casually walked up the floor. That is not the kind of play this rule was made for.

Except that is not what happened.

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

With the ball still in the backcourt under pressure near the FT line/top of the key opposite