High School Obstruction ??

[Palmer]

Starting High School season:

have a situational question to ask the "Professionals that bee".

It seems that most all the high school (varsity) teams we are playing have their baserunners on first base leading off or getting a big jump on stealing even before the ball is pitched. And,very seldom does the base umpire ever put themselves out on a limb and call it...

My question?? What would prevent the defensive team playing their first baseman close to firstbase and on the base path, until the ball is pitched then step forward out of the base path. As long as she is out of the way when the ball is released ?? This would prevent first base runner from getting an advanced lead before the ball is pitched. I would feel that the base path is free game for the defense also, at least until the ball is pitched...

But I am not sure if this would be called obstruction ???

I would appreciate a professional opinion from the umps from this site. I have always received very good opinions and suggestion from this site,,,

Thanks in advance for your time...:

Palmer


,

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Palmer

Starting High School season:

Way too early for that

It seems that most all the high school (varsity) teams we are playing have their baserunners on first base leading off or getting a big jump on stealing even before the ball is pitched. And,very seldom does the base umpire ever put themselves out on a limb and call it...

Shame on the umpire ASSUMING they are actually leaving the base early, not just in motion.

My question?? What would prevent the defensive team playing their first baseman close to firstbase and on the base path, until the ball is pitched then step forward out of the base path.

Not a thing, unless the umpires are that weak and the coach will talk them into enforcing a non-existent rule.

As long as she is out of the way when the ball is released ?? This would prevent first base runner from getting an advanced lead before the ball is pitched. I would feel that the base path is free game for the defense also, at least until the ball is pitched...

But I am not sure if this would be called obstruction ???

It shouldn't be unless it actually is. If the umpire is not judging the runner to have left early and F3 does impede the runner from legally advancing, then it is OBS.

I would appreciate a professional opinion from the umps from this site. I have always received very good opinions and suggestion from this site

A fielder can stand anywhere they please as long as they are completely in fair territory prior to the pitch. But like I said, if they are ignoring one violation (assuming it is), than the OBS may be called if the runner's progress is affected.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Palmer

It seems that most all the high school (varsity) teams we are playing have their baserunners on first base leading off or getting a big jump on stealing even before the ball is pitched. And,very seldom does the base umpire ever put themselves out on a limb and call it...

As Mike said, ASSUMING they are actually leaving the base early, not just in motion, the umpires should be calling it and if it is that common, might not be actually leaving early. The runner's body in motion or one foot stepping is not leaving early. The runner has to have lost contact with the base while the pitcher still has contact with the ball to be a violation.

About the OBS. If the fielder is hindering a runner's legal progress (runner's body in motion or one foot stepping) by the positioning you describe, then it is likely OBS.

[DaveASA/FED]

I agree with the other posts mentioned. I would say one additional thing to sharpen your eye for leaving early. When I have someone that is close to leaving early, or when fans of a coach are really bit...nagg...complaining (good PC word) about it I will do the following. Give up looking for an IP, and watch the runner first, concentrate on their last foot that is on the bag (if they are rocking and getting a running start the lead foot will be off the bag WAY early but that back foot hangs in there for a while. So watch that back foot, as soon as you see seperation switch your eyes to the pitcher, where is the ball??? Has she released it, then it's legal! Does F1 still have it, then they are leaving early, call the dead ball and the out.

Again I don't reccommend this as a common practice for an umpire as you are not able to watch for IP's, and you are a little slower in getting your eyes to the plate for a check swing appeal (not usually as big of a loss as not seeing IP's since you can usually follow the ball and see most of a check swing situation). But this is good to reassure yourself about someone that everyone in the park but you thinks is leaving early!! Also it's a good way for fans to see what is really going on if someone would train them to look at it correctly.

Palmer,
I am not saying you are not watching correctly, just venting about some fans and coaches I have dealt with over the years!

[argodad]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

I agree with the other posts mentioned. I would say one additional thing to sharpen your eye for leaving early. When I have someone that is close to leaving early, or when fans of a coach are really bit...nagg...complaining (good PC word) about it I will do the following.

Many years ago when I was coaching, I told my girls, "If the other fans aren't complaining that you are leaving early, then you aren't leaving early enough."

Give up looking for an IP, and watch the runner first, concentrate on their last foot that is on the bag (if they are rocking and getting a running start the lead foot will be off the bag WAY early but that back foot hangs in there for a while. So watch that back foot, as soon as you see seperation switch your eyes to the pitcher, where is the ball??? Has she released it, then it's legal! Does F1 still have it, then they are leaving early, call the dead ball and the out.

I watch the pitcher for IP as usual, but shift my focus to the back foot when the P reaches 12 o'clock in her circle. If it is still on the base, she's legal.

I am not saying you are not watching correctly, just venting about some fans and coaches I have dealt with over the years!

I was U1 in a three-umpire crew with a fast, aggressive runner on 1B. Of course, I was looking right through her at the pitcher. Fans were STILL yelling at me that she was leaving early. She was legal.

[Snocatzdad]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

When I have someone that is close to leaving early, or when fans of a coach are really bit...nagg...complaining (good PC word) about it I will do the following. Give up looking for an IP, and watch the runner first, concentrate on their last foot that is on the bag (if they are rocking and getting a running start the lead foot will be off the bag WAY early but that back foot hangs in there for a while. So watch that back foot, as soon as you see seperation switch your eyes to the pitcher, where is the ball??? Has she released it, then it's legal! Does F1 still have it, then they are leaving early, call the dead ball and the out.

Again I don't reccommend this as a common practice for an umpire as you are not able to watch for IP's, and you are a little slower in getting your eyes to the plate for a check swing appeal (not usually as big of a loss as not seeing IP's since you can usually follow the ball and see most of a check swing situation). But this is good to reassure yourself about someone that everyone in the park but you thinks is leaving early!! Also it's a good way for fans to see what is really going on if someone would train them to look at it correctly.

Real problem with single umpire trying to watch this is that 99% of kids leave late, some really late, you might still be looking at her back foot on the bag about the time you hear the ball hit the catcher's mitt.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by argodad

Many years ago when I was coaching, I told my girls, "If the other fans aren't complaining that you are leaving early, then you aren't leaving early enough."

Since this has morphed into a leaving early discussion, I will share my story around the quote above:

Last year, HS Varsity game between two pretty good teams. Coach of Team B is a well known and respected Gold travel ball coach in the area. F6 of Team A plays for Coach B during the travel ball season. Game is being played at Team A home field.

Bottom of first. Team A coming to bat, F6 is leadoff hitter. Coach B walks by me and says - If she (F6) gets on, watch her leaving early. I taught her to do that, but I'll be d*mned if she's going to do it to me in this game!

[JefferMC]

Originally Posted by Andy

Since this has morphed into a leaving early discussion, I will share my story around the quote above:

Last year, HS Varsity game between two pretty good teams. Coach of Team B is a well known and respected Gold travel ball coach in the area. F6 of Team A plays for Coach B during the travel ball season. Game is being played at Team A home field.

Bottom of first. Team A coming to bat, F6 is leadoff hitter. Coach B walks by me and says - If she (F6) gets on, watch her leaving early. I taught her to do that, but I'll be d*mned if she's going to do it to me in this game!

You reminded me of a similar situation last year. My DD's travel coach is also a High School Coach (and just about Mr. Fast Pitch in this part of the state). We're playing against a team with his fastest varsity base runner (dad was college track star, she's about the fastest kid I know). She gets on first, next pitch she heads for second and beats the throw. Coach yells from the third base box:

"SHE LEFT EARLY!!!... [beat] at least that's what all the other coaches say when she's playing for me!"

He also coaches that if you're not ever getting called (or at least complained about) for leaving early, you're leaving too late.