Double Play

[Mass Ump]

R1 on 2B and R2 on 1B. B3 hits hard grounder to the SS and when the ball is fielded by the SS she goes to tag R1 on her way to 3B but R1 retreats back towards 2B. I called R1 out for running back towards 2B and R2 out because the ball reached 2B before R2 got there. My question I guess is can a runner on a force play retreat back to a base before there is any Put Out at a base.
I know the force play is out for any base further than where the first Put Out is made. For instance runners at 1B and 2B hard hit ball to SS, SS throws ball to 2B first that will then make a tag play in effect for 3B but a force at 1B.

[RKBUmp]

The only place that is against the rules to retreat is a batter/runner between home and first. Then it is a dead ball, batter/runner out, all runners return.

[Mass Ump]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

The only place that is against the rules to retreat is a batter/runner between home and first. Then it is a dead ball, batter/runner out, all runners return.

Say if the bases are loaded and the batter/runner retreats between home and first. Would the batter/runner be out and then the bases remain loaded.

[Mass Ump]

Originally Posted by Mass Ump

R1 on 2B and R2 on 1B. B3 hits hard grounder to the SS and when the ball is fielded by the SS she goes to tag R1 on her way to 3B but R1 retreats back towards 2B. I called R1 out for running back towards 2B and R2 out because the ball reached 2B before R2 got there. My question I guess is can a runner on a force play retreat back to a base before there is any Put Out at a base.
I know the force play is out for any base further than where the first Put Out is made. For instance runners at 1B and 2B hard hit ball to SS, SS throws ball to 2B first that will then make a tag play in effect for 3B but a force at 1B.

Say the ball reaches second base after R1 retreats back to 2B but before R2 gets there. Would you have to tag out R2 or would R2 be out because you cant have two runners at one base.

[BlitzkriegBob]

Originally Posted by Mass Ump

Say if the bases are loaded and the batter/runner retreats between home and first. Would the batter/runner be out and then the bases remain loaded.

As RKBUmp stated, the batter-runner would be out and all other runners return. So the answer to your question is yes.

Originally Posted by Mass Ump

Say the ball reaches second base after R1 retreats back to 2B but before R2 gets there. Would you have to tag out R2 or would R2 be out because you cant have two runners at one base.

Assuming that whichever defensive player who catches the throw is touching second base, why would you think that R2 needs to be tagged? It is a force play, plain and simple.

At the risk of confusing you, if you have heads up defensive players, they would tag R1 first (assuming R1 is on 2B) prior to touching 2B, keeping the force play active. Otherwise, if R2 if forced initially, then R1 is no longer required to advance, and would be safe at 2B.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Mass Ump

Say the ball reaches second base after R1 retreats back to 2B but before R2 gets there. Would you have to tag out R2 or would R2 be out because you cant have two runners at one base.

To retire R1 you have to do one of two things:
1. Touch third base while possessing the ball before R2 is retired.
2. Touch R1 with the ball or the glove in possession of the ball.

If your SS runs to 2nd and touches the base and then touches R1, R1 is safe. If she runs to 2nd and touches the runner then the base, that's a double play.

The only time you call them out for two runners on the same base without a tag is if the pitcher has the ball in the circle and is not making a play on the runners. Give everyone time to make a mistake and then call time and take the runner not entitled to the base off of it.
________
HotMonic live

[Dakota]

Actually, if both R1 and R2 stand a foot or two off the base, and the fielder tags both (while both are off the base), R1 is out and R2 is safe and placed on the base.













Wait, that only applies to MLB, and only in the playoffs, and only if the Yankees are on offense...

[greymule]

Remember also that the BR between home and 1B is out only if he steps backward to avoid or delay a tag. Merely retreating, such as in the mistaken belief that his fly ball was caught in the outfield, is not a violation.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Mass Ump

Say the ball reaches second base after R1 retreats back to 2B but before R2 gets there. Would you have to tag out R2 or would R2 be out because you cant have two runners at one base.

There is no such ruling.....even in MLB. The player must be retired in the same manners required at any other time.

[Mass Ump]

Originally Posted by youngump

To retire R1 you have to do one of two things:
1. Touch third base while possessing the ball before R2 is retired.
2. Touch R1 with the ball or the glove in possession of the ball.

If your SS runs to 2nd and touches the base and then touches R1, R1 is safe. If she runs to 2nd and touches the runner then the base, that's a double play.

The only time you call them out for two runners on the same base without a tag is if the pitcher has the ball in the circle and is not making a play on the runners. Give everyone time to make a mistake and then call time and take the runner not entitled to the base off of it.

Thank you for your answer

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by Mass Ump

Say if the bases are loaded and the batter/runner retreats between home and first. Would the batter/runner be out and then the bases remain loaded.

That's considered a form of interference by the B-R. For ASA & Fed, all other runners return to the base occupied at the time of the interference. For college, runners return to the base occupied at the time of the pitch.

[greymule]

The only time you call them out for two runners on the same base without a tag is if the pitcher has the ball in the circle and is not making a play on the runners. Give everyone time to make a mistake and then call time and take the runner not entitled to the base off of it.

But you don't declare anybody out. In this very rare case, if nobody moves and the pitcher doesn't make a play, you call time and send the following runner back a base, at least in ASA. (I don't think the book deals with this situation, but that what I heard at a clinic.) I can't imagine this happening at anything above pee-wee level.

Purely theoretically, in OBR, if two runners were on 2B and the pitcher wanted to pitch to a batter, that is entirely legal. Of course, the following runner has to be careful not to pass the preceding runner. But technically play can resume, even with two runners taking a lead off 2B. Chances are you will not see this in the upcoming World Series.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by youngump

The only time you call them out for two runners on the same base without a tag is if the pitcher has the ball in the circle and is not making a play on the runners. Give everyone time to make a mistake and then call time and take the runner not entitled to the base off of it.

That case play ruling is true only in NFHS, despite no actual rule that makes that runner out.

In ASA and NCAA, no one is declared out without being actually put out; if the defense refuses to make the necessary tag, and the runners remain on the base, you would call time and return the trailing runner to the prior base, since no out has been made by the defense, nor rule violated by the offense.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by greymule

...Of course, the following runner has to be careful not to pass the preceding runner. But technically play can resume, even with two runners taking a lead off 2B. Chances are you will not see this in the upcoming World Series.

Of course, even if we do see it... chances our, our mlb brothers in creme, will not.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Of course, even if we do see it... chances our, our mlb brothers in creme, will not.

Actually, rumor has it Bucknor and Cuzzi were in line for the World Series until their work in the Division Series. Think of two misses at 1B in one game, and an atrocious foul ball call down the line in another.