getting inside

[Indianajones]

U1 goes inside and pivots and has batter/runner to second or no in 3 person mechanics? Also what do college assignors/observers look for? Can you have a baseball like called third strike mechanic or is it just the basic one?

[NCASAUmp]

What association are you calling for? May make a difference...

Let's assume no one goes out to call the catch or fair/foul, and let's assume we're talking ASA.

If there are no runners on, 3BU goes inside to cover the batter-runner going to 2B. If there's a lone runner on 1B, 3BU covers 2B, including the BR. If there's a single runner on 3B, 3BU releases to cover the BR going to 2B only if the runner on 3rd is absolutely committed to heading home.

So in a nutshell, as long as 1BU is NOT counter-rotated, 3BU will usually have calls at 2B.

In all other cases, 1BU has the BR going to 2B.

If I screwed that up, someone will let me know.

[NCASAUmp]

NCAA mechanics? Someone else will have to provide an answer. I believe they're largely similar to ASA's, but I believe there are differences.

Anyone else want to take this one? The OP prior to the edit did not specify any association, and I only do ASA.

[Indianajones]

with multiple runners on U1 is already @ 2nd correct

[DaveASA/FED]

As NC has already stated it depends on the situation (if ball is hit in air to outfield and someone is going out) and where the umpires are who has the BR into 2nd.

Your second question, yes with multiple runners on U1 is near 2nd, off the shoulder of the 2nd baseperson. But again if there is a fly ball from left fielder to right fielder going toward the middle part of the field U1 should be chasing that fly ball for catch no catch, and U3 would have BR into 2nd base. So it depends on a number of variables who would take the BR into 2nd.

To your last original question, ASA and FED mechanics are the same. NCAA has it's own mechanics. They "work the rim" and have a different person cover 1st base calls when U1 goes out with nobody on. There are other small differences I am sure (I don't call NCAA so someone else will have to chime in) these are just 2 that I do know of.

I am not sure what a 'baseball like' called 3rd strike is, but in all softball that I have seen having a baseball like call is not a good thing. By that I mean pointing instead of the hammer. Also looking away from the ball when making a called 3rd is frowned very heavily upon by any ruleset.

[Rachel]

NCAA 3 umpire mechanics.

U1 on a single can stay outside on a single with no one on. They watch the touch and then move to a position 10' from the bag at 90º from the front of the bag. If there is a throw back that is the best position to see the play. U3 is coming over to a point 10' from 2nd at 90º from the front of the bag. U1 will come into a holding zone when the single runner goes to 2nd. If the runner goes to 3rd they (U1) will rotate home to the point of the plate. This is different than ASA.

Turning your head away from the ball and pointing on a 3rd strike is a big "NO NO" in NCAA mechanics. Not that it is too much like baseball it's just not seeing the ball is a bad thing. You would not be too convincing on a D3K call.

Why am I awake at 3 am on a school night?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Indianajones

U1 goes inside and pivots and has batter/runner to second or no in 3 person mechanics?

Short answer, U1 is responsible for calls at 2B when U3 goes out on a fly ball or the play starts with a runner on 2B.

Also what do college assignors/observers look for?

An angry phone call from a coach

Can you have a baseball like called third strike mechanic or is it just the basic one?

What is your perception of a "baseball like" 3rd strike mechanic?

[Rachel]

I think the NCAA wants the base umpires concentrating on the game and not yucking it up with the PU talking about where they will be going to dinner.

I watch the infielders and count pitches because if I have a coach question me on if the pitcher took 6 warmups I can have an answer.

Another point from Ed. If you called the out on the bases to end the inning you do not clean the pitchers plate. You just go to the outfield. Your partner cleans it. If the plate ump calls the out then it is whomever is in the middle of the diamond. If both are on the wings then it is U3's responsibility.

Don't clean bases unless they are dirty to the point of affecting play. Wait till the inning is over. If you clean a base right after a close play it weakens your call. We play on dirt.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Rachel

I think the NCAA wants the base umpires concentrating on the game and not yucking it up with the PU talking about where they will be going to dinner....

That view is apparently not limited to NCAA, and I've always taken it as being treated like a child.

"If you two don't cut that out, I'll have to come in there and separate you."

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rachel

I think the NCAA wants the base umpires concentrating on the game and not yucking it up with the PU talking about where they will be going to dinner.

That would be your problem. I'm usually talking about the game, not dinner.

I watch the infielders and count pitches because if I have a coach question me on if the pitcher took 6 warmups I can have an answer.

Which can easily be done from the foul line even while talking about something else.

How is it that umpires make such a big deal of pre-game meetings and communications among umpires, but when the game starts, that priority seems to disappear? There are a bundle of little signals to remind each other of particular situations or possible scenarios, but actual discussion is frowned upon? I just don't understand the hesitation to allow something that existed for years.

Another point from Ed. If you called the out on the bases to end the inning you do not clean the pitchers plate. You just go to the outfield. Your partner cleans it. If the plate ump calls the out then it is whomever is in the middle of the diamond. If both are on the wings then it is U3's responsibility.

Or whoever is closest to the PP can do it and then hustle to their position on the foul line. Let me see. As U3 I bang a BR at 2B on a line drive to right on which U1 went out and I'm suppose to turn and move to my position behind 3B and U1 is suppose to hustle in past his position, clean the PP and then return to his position. That cannot be right.

Don't clean bases unless they are dirty to the point of affecting play. Wait till the inning is over. If you clean a base right after a close play it weakens your call. We play on dirt.

Clean the base when necessary. If a sliding runner or crossing SS cover the base with dirt, remove the dirt WITH A BRUSH, not your foot. I certainly would not leave it covered to give cause to question a call on a subsequent play that inning.

The "weakens the call" paranoia must be tough to deal with when working the plate and a batter covers the plate with dirt on the way to the dugout after getting pumped out on strikes.

[Rachel]

I have been fortunate enough to have been evaluated by all three of the people that make the decisions on who works post season in the NCAA in the past year. I am not going to argue why they want what they want I am just saying what I have been told. That is what the original poster wanted.

[topper]

Originally Posted by Rachel

I think the NCAA wants the base umpires concentrating on the game and not yucking it up with the PU talking about where they will be going to dinner.

I watch the infielders and count pitches because if I have a coach question me on if the pitcher took 6 warmups I can have an answer.

Another point from Ed. If you called the out on the bases to end the inning you do not clean the pitchers plate. You just go to the outfield. Your partner cleans it. If the plate ump calls the out then it is whomever is in the middle of the diamond. If both are on the wings then it is U3's responsibility.

Don't clean bases unless they are dirty to the point of affecting play. Wait till the inning is over. If you clean a base right after a close play it weakens your call. We play on dirt.

What an umpire does when the ball is in play is exponentially more important than these points. Too much time is spent "majoring on the minors" these days. Do what makes sense. I don't clean a base unless it needs it, but if it needs to be cleaned immediately after a call, I clean it. If a coach's perception of this causes them to come out, fine. I'll probably have them take their perception and their a$$ back to the dugout.

So many umpires that I work with and evaluate are so concerned with these types of ancillary points that the rest of their game, the important parts, suffer. I do let those I'm teaching/evaluating know what the Staff expects when it comes to these things, but that's about as far as it goes. I'm much more concerned with an umpire's ability to call the game than his/her ability to buy the proper belt buckle or where/how they stand between innings.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by topper

What an umpire does when the ball is in play is exponentially more important than these points. Too much time is spent "majoring on the minors" these days. Do what makes sense. I don't clean a base unless it needs it, but if it needs to be cleaned immediately after a call, I clean it. If a coach's perception of this causes them to come out, fine. I'll probably have them take their perception and their a$$ back to the dugout.

So many umpires that I work with and evaluate are so concerned with these types of ancillary points that the rest of their game, the important parts, suffer. I do let those I'm teaching/evaluating know what the Staff expects when it comes to these things, but that's about as far as it goes. I'm much more concerned with an umpire's ability to call the game than his/her ability to buy the proper belt buckle or where/how they stand between innings.

Yeah, but some people get really, really hung up on these things. I was working a tournament a while back, three man crew. In one game, as U1, I walked over behind second base to talk with my partner about a rotation issue I had noticed. Later, in another game, I was U3. There was a team that was warming up right where tradition has me standing, between innings, so I opted for the old just off the foul line a few feet in from third. In both cases, I got from the evaluator the old "where are you supposed to be between innings?!" While the first instance was deemed acceptable, with furrowed brow, I was told in the second instance that I should have moved the players warming up back. That had me wondering, why then, do we have alternate between inning positions?

Basically, though, these little nuances are little more than a case of "when in Rome...etc."

[Rachel]

I can appreciate the complaint of NCAA evaluators being too worried about details. I agree with Topper in that what you do when the ball is in play is what is important. There are a lot of great umpires that call a great game. What the coaches want is a consistent accurate zone, the calls right and a lot of hustle. They want you to be approachable and be professional. A lot of us do that.

That would be your problem.

I know even when I would be on the line with my PU I would be talking about the game. The coaches don't know that. Your crew needs to give the perception of unity and teamwork. Too many conferences with your crew may give the perception of confusion. If you need to get together to discuss something do so but not as a course of habit.

Things like the decision for when to go out on a ball to the outfield and when it is just wasting an umpire. That is what evaluators look for. The minor stuff is the minor stuff but it is noticed.