getting inside

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by Indianajones

what is the ideal spot between innings for U1 and U3?

From the 2009 CCA Softball Umpire's Manual

U1: facing the plate no more than 15 feet off the foul line at approximately where the grass starts.

U2: facing the plate no more than 15 feet off the foul line at approximately where the grass starts.

Sounds like you could use the manual.

[Indianajones]

yes I do but it won't be here by saturday and I am just trying to get the basic stuff. 15 feet of the foul line in fair territory like baseball?

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by Indianajones

yes I do but it won't be here by saturday and I am just trying to get the basic stuff. 15 feet of the foul line in fair territory like baseball?

I only watch baseball on TV, so I can't comment on what they do.

NCAA softball wants us 15 feet off the foul line at approximately where the grass starts.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Indianajones

what is the ideal spot between innings for U1 and U3?

Ideal? IMO, standing with your PU on the baseline between the plate and your assigned position.

Reality, and prescribed mechanic, is that those responsible for this are fearful of possible confrontation and hide the umpires as far away from the players/coaches as reasonably possible. Move into the OF grass approx. 10-15 feet off the foul line.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Indianajones

U1 goes inside and pivots and has batter/runner to second or no in 3 person mechanics?

Short answer, U1 is responsible for calls at 2B when U3 goes out on a fly ball or the play starts with a runner on 2B.

Also what do college assignors/observers look for?

An angry phone call from a coach

Can you have a baseball like called third strike mechanic or is it just the basic one?

What is your perception of a "baseball like" 3rd strike mechanic?

[Rachel]

I think the NCAA wants the base umpires concentrating on the game and not yucking it up with the PU talking about where they will be going to dinner.

I watch the infielders and count pitches because if I have a coach question me on if the pitcher took 6 warmups I can have an answer.

Another point from Ed. If you called the out on the bases to end the inning you do not clean the pitchers plate. You just go to the outfield. Your partner cleans it. If the plate ump calls the out then it is whomever is in the middle of the diamond. If both are on the wings then it is U3's responsibility.

Don't clean bases unless they are dirty to the point of affecting play. Wait till the inning is over. If you clean a base right after a close play it weakens your call. We play on dirt.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Rachel

I think the NCAA wants the base umpires concentrating on the game and not yucking it up with the PU talking about where they will be going to dinner....

That view is apparently not limited to NCAA, and I've always taken it as being treated like a child.

"If you two don't cut that out, I'll have to come in there and separate you."

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rachel

I think the NCAA wants the base umpires concentrating on the game and not yucking it up with the PU talking about where they will be going to dinner.

That would be your problem. I'm usually talking about the game, not dinner.

I watch the infielders and count pitches because if I have a coach question me on if the pitcher took 6 warmups I can have an answer.

Which can easily be done from the foul line even while talking about something else.

How is it that umpires make such a big deal of pre-game meetings and communications among umpires, but when the game starts, that priority seems to disappear? There are a bundle of little signals to remind each other of particular situations or possible scenarios, but actual discussion is frowned upon? I just don't understand the hesitation to allow something that existed for years.

Another point from Ed. If you called the out on the bases to end the inning you do not clean the pitchers plate. You just go to the outfield. Your partner cleans it. If the plate ump calls the out then it is whomever is in the middle of the diamond. If both are on the wings then it is U3's responsibility.

Or whoever is closest to the PP can do it and then hustle to their position on the foul line. Let me see. As U3 I bang a BR at 2B on a line drive to right on which U1 went out and I'm suppose to turn and move to my position behind 3B and U1 is suppose to hustle in past his position, clean the PP and then return to his position. That cannot be right.

Don't clean bases unless they are dirty to the point of affecting play. Wait till the inning is over. If you clean a base right after a close play it weakens your call. We play on dirt.

Clean the base when necessary. If a sliding runner or crossing SS cover the base with dirt, remove the dirt WITH A BRUSH, not your foot. I certainly would not leave it covered to give cause to question a call on a subsequent play that inning.

The "weakens the call" paranoia must be tough to deal with when working the plate and a batter covers the plate with dirt on the way to the dugout after getting pumped out on strikes.

[Rachel]

I have been fortunate enough to have been evaluated by all three of the people that make the decisions on who works post season in the NCAA in the past year. I am not going to argue why they want what they want I am just saying what I have been told. That is what the original poster wanted.

[topper]

Originally Posted by Rachel

I think the NCAA wants the base umpires concentrating on the game and not yucking it up with the PU talking about where they will be going to dinner.

I watch the infielders and count pitches because if I have a coach question me on if the pitcher took 6 warmups I can have an answer.

Another point from Ed. If you called the out on the bases to end the inning you do not clean the pitchers plate. You just go to the outfield. Your partner cleans it. If the plate ump calls the out then it is whomever is in the middle of the diamond. If both are on the wings then it is U3's responsibility.

Don't clean bases unless they are dirty to the point of affecting play. Wait till the inning is over. If you clean a base right after a close play it weakens your call. We play on dirt.

What an umpire does when the ball is in play is exponentially more important than these points. Too much time is spent "majoring on the minors" these days. Do what makes sense. I don't clean a base unless it needs it, but if it needs to be cleaned immediately after a call, I clean it. If a coach's perception of this causes them to come out, fine. I'll probably have them take their perception and their a$$ back to the dugout.

So many umpires that I work with and evaluate are so concerned with these types of ancillary points that the rest of their game, the important parts, suffer. I do let those I'm teaching/evaluating know what the Staff expects when it comes to these things, but that's about as far as it goes. I'm much more concerned with an umpire's ability to call the game than his/her ability to buy the proper belt buckle or where/how they stand between innings.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by topper

What an umpire does when the ball is in play is exponentially more important than these points. Too much time is spent "majoring on the minors" these days. Do what makes sense. I don't clean a base unless it needs it, but if it needs to be cleaned immediately after a call, I clean it. If a coach's perception of this causes them to come out, fine. I'll probably have them take their perception and their a$$ back to the dugout.

So many umpires that I work with and evaluate are so concerned with these types of ancillary points that the rest of their game, the important parts, suffer. I do let those I'm teaching/evaluating know what the Staff expects when it comes to these things, but that's about as far as it goes. I'm much more concerned with an umpire's ability to call the game than his/her ability to buy the proper belt buckle or where/how they stand between innings.

Yeah, but some people get really, really hung up on these things. I was working a tournament a while back, three man crew. In one game, as U1, I walked over behind second base to talk with my partner about a rotation issue I had noticed. Later, in another game, I was U3. There was a team that was warming up right where tradition has me standing, between innings, so I opted for the old just off the foul line a few feet in from third. In both cases, I got from the evaluator the old "where are you supposed to be between innings?!" While the first instance was deemed acceptable, with furrowed brow, I was told in the second instance that I should have moved the players warming up back. That had me wondering, why then, do we have alternate between inning positions?

Basically, though, these little nuances are little more than a case of "when in Rome...etc."

[Rachel]

I can appreciate the complaint of NCAA evaluators being too worried about details. I agree with Topper in that what you do when the ball is in play is what is important. There are a lot of great umpires that call a great game. What the coaches want is a consistent accurate zone, the calls right and a lot of hustle. They want you to be approachable and be professional. A lot of us do that.

That would be your problem.

I know even when I would be on the line with my PU I would be talking about the game. The coaches don't know that. Your crew needs to give the perception of unity and teamwork. Too many conferences with your crew may give the perception of confusion. If you need to get together to discuss something do so but not as a course of habit.

Things like the decision for when to go out on a ball to the outfield and when it is just wasting an umpire. That is what evaluators look for. The minor stuff is the minor stuff but it is noticed.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rachel

I know even when I would be on the line with my PU I would be talking about the game. The coaches don't know that. Your crew needs to give the perception of unity and teamwork. Too many conferences with your crew may give the perception of confusion. If you need to get together to discuss something do so but not as a course of habit.

Seems there are a lot of people who worry a lot about what the coaches think or perceive. I'm not there to satisfy what some putz chooses to read into anything.

Even with that belief, meeting routinely eliminates such perceptions. It is the rare meetings that will throw up a red flag and make a coach wonder what their problem may be.

Things like the decision for when to go out on a ball to the outfield and when it is just wasting an umpire. That is what evaluators look for. The minor stuff is the minor stuff but it is noticed.

I'm with Top, just do the damn job. The minor stuff should be routine and take care of itself.

An evaluator should be observing the entire umpire, not looking for CS issues to nitpick.

[luvthegame]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Seems there are a lot of people who worry a lot about what the coaches think or percieve. I'm not there to satisfy what some putz chooses to read into anything.
Geesh...Irish...we all know what a hard arse you profess to be (not that that is bad in some arenas)...that doesn't always fly for others...as long as an umpire can fulfill their responsibilities to the game and their partners...why not let people percieve you in a positive manner or think well of you?Even with that belief, meeting routinely eliminates such perceptions. And midway on the lines lets you hear things you might not want to hear!! It is the rare meetings that will throw up a red flag and make a coach wonder what their problem may be.



I'm with Top, just do the damn job. The minor stuff should be routine and take care of itself. [/COLOR]YEP!! Should.[/COLOR]

An evaluator should be observing the entire umpire, not looking for CS issues to nitpick.

Kinda like what "type" of hammer mechanic is executed?

Sometimes the CS things separate umpires...for instance let observers know who has read the manual and who hasn't bothered? Making the CS issues part of the entire umpire!!

[wadeintothem]

I personnally think its fine for umpires to meet, but its not consistent umpire team to umpire team, so I think that lends to disallowing it.

There is disfavor with the practice in both ASA and NCAA.

In regular tournaments I think its fine and like to BS a little between innings, and no its not always about the game - when training a rook, I insist on it most 1/2 innings so each training issue can be addressed immediately (or even maybe to tell him/her good job/call).

In championship play, ASA has put little X's on the field and I dutifully move to those X's and stand there and try to avoid talking at all....