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Old Wed Jul 17, 2002, 11:32am
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This play was discussed several months ago, & I need the the rule that was cited:
R1, no outs, batter singles to deep right. R1 misses 2nd & proceeeds to 3rd. While taking the cutoff, F4 inadvertantly brushes 2nd base. The ruling on this board (don't remember whose) was: R1 called out immediately, no need for appeal because it was a force. However, if it was the BR that missed 2nd, an unmistakeable appeal would be required.
I'd love to bring this up at an upcoming tournament (there's always great discussion under the umpire tent), but I want to back it up with the rule book.
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Old Wed Jul 17, 2002, 11:47am
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No

Once a runner has reached or passed a base they are (assumed) to have achieved that base - until a formal (live or dead ball) appeal has been granted.

Thus R1 had achieved 2nd base and the force was off. No out until formal appeal (assuming that she had not returned to 2nd before the appeal).
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Old Wed Jul 17, 2002, 12:15pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Kupka
I'd love to bring this up at an upcoming tournament (there's always great discussion under the umpire tent), but I want to back it up with the rule book.
WMB is correct - appeal is necessary, and they must know what they are appealing.

Now if you want a good one for the umpire tent - try this one on for size (it appeared a few weeks ago on another board)...

1 out, runners on 1st & 2nd. Batter pops one up along the 1st baseline. IFF if fair is called. Ball drops to ground untouched and starts rolling foul. F3 throws her glove hitting the ball in fair territory.

What's the call??

-Kono
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Old Wed Jul 17, 2002, 12:26pm
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"1 out, runners on 1st & 2nd. Batter pops one up along the 1st baseline. IFF if fair is called. Ball drops to ground untouched and starts rolling foul. F3 throws her glove hitting the ball in fair territory.

What's the call??"

Simple as dirt. Three base award, R1 and R2 score, batter out on IFF. F3 given "Stupid Play of Game" award.

Bob
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Old Wed Jul 17, 2002, 01:58pm
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No, it is not a force, and while an appeal of a missed base to which the runner was forced is treated like a force for purposes of scoring runs on the 3rd out, it still requires a proper appeal.

Rule 8-3-B
... When a runner passes a base, the runner is considered to have touched the base...

Rule 8-8-C
THE RUNNER IS OUT When, on a force play, a fielder contacts the base while holding the ball,... before the runner reaches the base.

So, the runner has reached the base. The force no longer applies.

Rule 8-8-G
THE RUNNER IS OUT When the runner fails to touch the intervening base ... and the ball is returned to an infielder and properly appealed.

So, the accidental touch of the base would only have the runner out if the touch happened before the runner passed the base. After that, it must be properly appealed.
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Old Wed Jul 17, 2002, 02:23pm
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The only code which recognizes the "accidential appeal" is the Fed baseball code. Thankfully the FED RC for softball did away with that when they instituted appeals in 2001.

By the way, the problem in Fed baseball is not in the baserunning/appeal section, it is in the definition of a force play in 2-29-3.

Now for a real discussion starter, ask someone to find a rule in the current Fed softball book that causes the BR to be out if 1st base is tagged before the BR reaches the base. (Hint: Its not in there!!!!)

Roger Greene
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Old Wed Jul 17, 2002, 07:36pm
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I was going to chime in but see that Roger has already answered it.........

FED BB allows for the accidental appeal.........

I belong to a Newsgroup that Tim Stevens (FED Rules Committee Member) also belongs to.......I will ask him if this rule is up for consideration of change........

Joel
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Old Wed Jul 17, 2002, 08:20pm
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Just as an additional note, Pennsylvania's state interp for baseball has instructed us that PIAA will not recognize an accidental appeal in baseball. I have been told that Fed baseball will address this. More to follow - I'm sure.

The Fed softball rules were pretty much rewritten last year. Roger caught that item about a batter-runner & is it a force a 1B just about as soon as he got his book & noted it here. I passed that on to a firend who is on the rules committee but he has not said anything about it since then - and I keep forgetting to ask when I see him.

Steve M
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Old Wed Jul 17, 2002, 10:28pm
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Fed baseball rule changes are out. They cleaned up some appeal problems (such as the coach is no longer alowed to make a live ball appeal {big G}, but did not addtess the accidential appeal/force play problem.

Try this URl http://www.nhfs.org/sports/baseball_rules_changes.asp

Roger Greene
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