2020, anyone?

[luvthegame]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Well, I think you should blame yourself. You need to work on your presentation - you seem more like a 28 year old childlike blathering fool of a softball parent of a 10U player or a troll than anyone who knows what they are talking about... and this goes back to even your very first post - of which I've reviewed them all. Admittedly, you havent always been as trollish as you have been since you've been Gary's personal harpie here (as if we cant read it there) - but you havent offered this forum a single piece of valuable information, interpretation, or insight for someone as supposedly experienced as you are.

strange.

Well, I'm sure I will know or know of personnally many of the umps working this tourney; we shall be able to immediately know first hand who has inserted their foot into their mouth as to your "excommunication" claims.

And my wavering has nothing to do with whether or not I believe Gary is the messiah of 18G and should support his leading teams to some so cal showcase to battle for tshirts stored in his garage.

I waver on fence distance rules, whether or not college players should be allowed (most of his of his self serving selfish talking points did not sway me at all-so I lean towards leaving 18G a true 18G championship), and whether it should move around (I think no, but obviously, everyone hates playing there). i do not waver on the fact I think there should be a coaches committee and they need to be able to express legit grievances, OKC @ 9 days is way too long and 1 week at other tourneys may even be too long (some of us have lives).

Thanks for the advice! I will try and remember it!!

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by luvthegame

Thanks for the advice! I will try and remember it!!

He has a point. You came across as a parent, coach, etc. ANYTHING other than an umpre.......

Delivery is everything.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by luvthegame

And my point or intent is not to denegrate a particular affiliation...but simply to open the eyes of those who might exercise such blind devotion that they cant see the forest through the trees!!

Yo, Bubba!!! I can guarantee Wade has no blind devotion to anyone. Then again, your "forest" is nothing, but opinion and observation. Offering a varying opinion is NOT blind devotion just because it doesn't agree with yours, unless you are the reincarnation of Sen. Joe McCarthy .

You have blown your horn on a couple of different boards about your right to provoke thought by voicing your opinion...and yet you try to tell others "what to stick to"...

Your opinions and claims have changed and wavered...by your own admission. Your "predictions" have been like weather reports!!

Pot..Kettle

I have heard the saying "umpires see things through their eyes..players, coaches and fans see things through their hearts"....

And now I think sometimes the opposite can be true...umpires are seeing things through their hearts and the players, fans and coaches are seeing things through their eyes!!

Now, you see, my opinion is that is rubbish. Umpire's have no horse in this race.

In summary...YES....I am proud to support GH's talking points and I support the Premier Tournament as a good start to making things better across the board for Girls Fastpitch Softball!!

And that is fine, but your methods are questionable. You have been like the politician who vows to run a clean campaign and then proceeds to tell everyone what a lousy job the opponent has done instead of telling everyone what it is that you can do to make it better. While GH has stated this isn't anything to do with being anti-ASA, all that has been said is that if ASA refuses to change to accommodate this one group of teams, they are wrong even though ASA clearly states and continually reinforces their dedication and mission to promote ALL softball, not just that for those who have bought into the scholarship (imo) scam.

[DNTXUM P]

Originally Posted by luvthegame

This is interesting...


ocbxball


Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:36 pm
Posts: 6 Re: Information about Premier Fastpitch Girls Softball

WOW (WADE) Chuck....open mouth...insert foot??

Will you ever have anything useful to offer again??

After all...it's only your reputation and credibility!!

I have heard only 5-6 SoCal Umps out of 32 overall.

They are NATIONAL....and QUALITY!!

Hey, Smoke. Can I come? I'll bring the fat tire and give you another ump from out of state

[bestviewofall]

While not knowing who you are, I can see your credentials are exceptional. If only I was the person making the decisions. Send the Ft Collins Finest anyways, please. it WILL NOT go to waste.

-Smokey

[DNTXUM P]

Sure you know who I am. I even have a pic of you with a Willie Nelson wig on that my daughter took when you were in Austin

[Blind Squirrel]

Wade, go ahead and educate the masses about what you know about me from my HeyBucket posts. The short bio is that I'm just another DumbA$$ parent in SoCal, never a softball coach or official of any sort.

From what I've seen, you umps typically segregate yourselves from coaches, players and parents off the field. I know zero about being an ump and I know little more about softball, but that voluntary segregation seems 100% appropriate and correct. It also suggests that you are as unlikely to be privy to much of what is going on between coaches as outsiders are privy to what is going on between umps.

The result as it relates to the posts in this thread, is that much of what is written about this tournament is largely or completely ignorant. IOW, you folks know very little about the specifics of the dynamic from which this tournament originated and it is predictable that you are surprised by some of what has come out so far. OTOH, if you had the relevant knowledge, you would have been surprised by little of this and it would make perfect sense to you (which it obviously doesn't given your posts openly wondering about some things). Many of the statements being made now by you folks have already been shown and will be clearly shown to be 100% wrong by the indisputable actions that actually take place WRT to this tournament. Don't feel bad. My kid played for more than 3 years in 18 Gold before I had a clue about anything that goes on behind the scenes. I still don't know crap about it, but I obviously know more than those that know nothing about it.

I also have to wonder about some of the comments about softball related scholarships that I have read. They do not reflect my experiences with college recruiting a couple of years ago, though admittedly, some things have apparently changed since then. Comments about the numbers of kids getting 25% or less rides versus more than that simply do not make mathematical sense based upon the number of scholarships versus the number of players. Start with the number of scholarships, subtract 4 kids getting a 25% ride and look at the remaining ratio. Factor in the odd kid on the team with full academic money and those with no scholarship money whatsoever. As for the notion that pitchers (and even include SSs and catchers) are about the only ones receiving more than 25% athletic money, again, unsupported by our experiences with major D1 colleges in a variety of conferences and locations. A concrete example: A Big-10 coach told us that they were giving 1 full ride to a pitcher and one full ride to a position player for my kid's graduating class. I doubt that their approach was unique and in fact was consistent with other hard offers received. Don't believe me, then believe your own eyes. How many of the top position players in this past years WCWS were impressive defensively? The kids were obviously recruited for their bats irrespective, at least to some degree, of the position they played.

This notion that these college kids are not paid. Right. Do their scholarships continue if they decide to quit the team? Nope. So what is the $30K tuition per year for, that we don't have to pay for my kid to attend that college? I doubt that it is because they prize her 2.9 GPA. Legal tender is the criteria for determining whether it constitutes payment? If a company pays for your housing costs do you consider that to be part of your compensation package? And BTW, the housing costs my kid will be given are rather generous WRT to the cost of housing at that location.

Finally, the notion that college players should play at 18 Gold Nationals. I'll just say that I don't think it would be fair for HS kids to compete in the classroom against top students with a year of college under their belt. How is softball different? Or maybe you think it is fair, as long as they are the same age.

It's your board. I'm just an uninvited visitor. Frankly, I will read the responses and not likely respond. Like the old Who song says "I don't need to fight to prove I'm right ..." Especially since I may well be wrong on every point.

That would surely be a first and oh so painful. (sarcasm)

Oh BTW Wade, I suggested you go F**K yourself on HeyBucket with the assumption you would take issue with it. My response was going to be to quote your post to SSarge and say I was just "goofing around."

Regards,
John

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Blind Squirrel

From what I've seen, you umps typically segregate yourselves from coaches, players and parents off the field. I know zero about being an ump and I know little more about softball, but that voluntary segregation seems 100% appropriate and correct. It also suggests that you are as unlikely to be privy to much of what is going on between coaches as outsiders are privy to what is going on between umps.

For those working games and tournaments, absolutely. Elsewhere? It may be true where you are, not everywhere. It is amazing how many people assume that an umpire is only an umpire and has knowledge limited to that field. However, you would be wrong. Many umpires have or are still playing some level of the game, have or are still coaching at some level of the game. And there are quite a few who actually sponsor and manage teams.

Did you ever notice that quite a few commissioners at all levels in all associations have umpired at one time or another? Why, you may ask? Because most umpires are in the game for the game. Not because they have a daughter playing, are looking for a scholarship, doing community service or social recognition. You should not discount an umpire's opinion just because they happen to be an umpire.

The result as it relates to the posts in this thread, is that much of what is written about this tournament is largely or completely ignorant. IOW, you folks know very little about the specifics of the dynamic from which this tournament originated and it is predictable that you are surprised by some of what has come out so far. OTOH, if you had the relevant knowledge, you would have been surprised by little of this and it would make perfect sense to you (which it obviously doesn't given your posts openly wondering about some things). Many of the statements being made now by you folks have already been shown and will be clearly shown to be 100% wrong by the indisputable actions that actually take place WRT to this tournament. Don't feel bad. My kid played for more than 3 years in 18 Gold before I had a clue about anything that goes on behind the scenes. I still don't know crap about it, but I obviously know more than those that know nothing about it.

Again, making a helluva an assumption, aren't we?

This notion that these college kids are not paid. Right. Do their scholarships continue if they decide to quit the team? Nope. So what is the $30K tuition per year for, that we don't have to pay for my kid to attend that college? I doubt that it is because they prize her 2.9 GPA. Legal tender is the criteria for determining whether it constitutes payment? If a company pays for your housing costs do you consider that to be part of your compensation package? And BTW, the housing costs my kid will be given are rather generous WRT to the cost of housing at that location.

Can they spend, trade or barter with this scholarship? Does student pay income taxes on the scholarship? Are you taxed on perks received through your employment whether health insurance, use of a company vehicle, tickets to a sporting event or may even an extra night accommodations when traveling on business? Also, IMO, the actual dollar value is exaggerated. Yes, someone doesn't have to pay the tuition, but the actual cost to the school probably doesn't come close to the declared value.

Finally, the notion that college players should play at 18 Gold Nationals. I'll just say that I don't think it would be fair for HS kids to compete in the classroom against top students with a year of college under their belt. How is softball different? Or maybe you think it is fair, as long as they are the same age.

Again, and again, and again, and again....ASA's mission is to promote softball for all and at the youth level participation is based upon the player's birth date. Nowhere in the 120 pages of the ASA Code (Amateur Softball Association of America (ASA) ) will you find the words "school" or "scholarship". So, I have no idea why anyone would assume or expect special treatment for players who have yet to be offered a scholarship.

As stated many, many, many times, what is so wrong about a team playing to win a true national championship with the best players available within a classification?

[Blind Squirrel]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

For those working games and tournaments, absolutely. Elsewhere? It may be true where you are, not everywhere. It is amazing how many people assume that an umpire is only an umpire and has knowledge limited to that field. However, you would be wrong. Many umpires have or are still playing some level of the game, have or are still coaching at some level of the game. And there are quite a few who actually sponsor and manage teams.

I never assumed any such thing. That would be quite stupid of me given that the two people who most impacted my kid's recruitment were both umpires who also coached her or managed her team. My segregation comment was besed upon behavior I have seen at tournaments. Maybe I wasn't clear.


Did you ever notice that quite a few commissioners at all levels in all associations have umpired at one time or another? Why, you may ask? Because most umpires are in the game for the game. Not because they have a daughter playing, are looking for a scholarship, doing community service or social recognition. You should not discount an umpire's opinion just because they happen to be an umpire.

I didn't intend to discount any umpire's opinion for any reason other than being ignorant of the goings on between 18 Gold coaches in private, in general, and some of the 18 Gold coaches in SoCal in particular. My comments were based far less upon assumptions about umpire's lives/interests and much more upon observations based on what has already come out and what I do have knowledge of that would preclude me from having the opinions I "discounted." I guess I did assume that umpire's wouldn't make dumb comments when they had information that was completely contrary to what they knew to be true. I make that same assumption about most everyone.

Again, making a helluva an assumption, aren't we?



Can they spend, trade or barter with this scholarship? Does student pay income taxes on the scholarship? Are you taxed on perks received through your employment whether health insurance, use of a company vehicle, tickets to a sporting event or may even an extra night accommodations when traveling on business? Also, IMO, the actual dollar value is exaggerated. Yes, someone doesn't have to pay the tuition, but the actual cost to the school probably doesn't come close to the declared value.

If the kid isn't clearly compensated (I use as a synonym for paid) for playing, the why is the compensation predicated upon their playing? Play, get compensation. Quit, no compensation. I couldn't care less about what it costs the school. I care about how much I PAY for my kid's college education.
Because there is at least one college coach who thinks my kid will be an asset to their team, I do not have to PAY tens of thousands of dollars. If not having to pay taxes or being able to trade the scholarship or cash it out are the only criteria for what constitutes her being "paid" then you're right. If being compensated for performing a service is being "paid" for that service, then she is being paid for playing a game at the college level.


Again, and again, and again, and again....ASA's mission is to promote softball for all and at the youth level participation is based upon the player's birth date. Nowhere in the 120 pages of the ASA Code (Amateur Softball Association of America (ASA) ) will you find the words "school" or "scholarship". So, I have no idea why anyone would assume or expect special treatment for players who have yet to be offered a scholarship.

As stated many, many, many times, what is so wrong about a team playing to win a true national championship with the best players available within a classification?

My comments about allowing college players were intentionally general which is why I used the analogy of academic competition to illustrate the basis for my view of unfairness. Of course there is nothing inherently wrong as you state. In the case of 18 Gold softball competition, you are obviously right that the current ASA rules clearly provide for it. Was a time when the laws in this country prohibited women from owning property and voting. Personally, I think they should still be on the books and rigorously enforced but others decided they should change and that change constitutes progress. (Okay, the part about my opinion was a joke) In this particular context and given my views about what youth sports should be about, I believe any player with college experience should not be allowed to compete in 18 Gold. My view as a know-nothing parent is that the rules should change. I will feel the same way next summer when my own kid is eligible to join a team just for Nationals.

BTW, I have no idea what you were referring to in the "special treatment ..." sentence.

Yes, I know I responded when I earlier suggested I wouldn't. I seriously doubt that it will become a habit. It just takes too much time.

Regards,
John

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by bestviewofall

I have been asked to work this tournament. I have accepted.

From what I have seen of the roster, I am excited to be invloved with this gathering. Just as excited as I am to be involved with every game I am allowed to work. But, this time is is with some of the biggest names in the sport.

I will answer all questions, to the best of my abilities

Have the organizers of the event decided what rule book they will be choosing to have enforced?

[luvthegame]

Originally Posted by Blind Squirrel

Wade, go ahead and educate the masses about what you know about me from my HeyBucket posts. The short bio is that I'm just another DumbA$$ parent in SoCal, never a softball coach or official of any sort.

From what I've seen, you umps typically segregate yourselves from coaches, players and parents off the field. I know zero about being an ump and I know little more about softball, but that voluntary segregation seems 100% appropriate and correct. It also suggests that you are as unlikely to be privy to much of what is going on between coaches as outsiders are privy to what is going on between umps.

The result as it relates to the posts in this thread, is that much of what is written about this tournament is largely or completely ignorant. IOW, you folks know very little about the specifics of the dynamic from which this tournament originated and it is predictable that you are surprised by some of what has come out so far. OTOH, if you had the relevant knowledge, you would have been surprised by little of this and it would make perfect sense to you (which it obviously doesn't given your posts openly wondering about some things). Many of the statements being made now by you folks have already been shown and will be clearly shown to be 100% wrong by the indisputable actions that actually take place WRT to this tournament. Don't feel bad. My kid played for more than 3 years in 18 Gold before I had a clue about anything that goes on behind the scenes. I still don't know crap about it, but I obviously know more than those that know nothing about it.

I also have to wonder about some of the comments about softball related scholarships that I have read. They do not reflect my experiences with college recruiting a couple of years ago, though admittedly, some things have apparently changed since then. Comments about the numbers of kids getting 25% or less rides versus more than that simply do not make mathematical sense based upon the number of scholarships versus the number of players. Start with the number of scholarships, subtract 4 kids getting a 25% ride and look at the remaining ratio. Factor in the odd kid on the team with full academic money and those with no scholarship money whatsoever. As for the notion that pitchers (and even include SSs and catchers) are about the only ones receiving more than 25% athletic money, again, unsupported by our experiences with major D1 colleges in a variety of conferences and locations. A concrete example: A Big-10 coach told us that they were giving 1 full ride to a pitcher and one full ride to a position player for my kid's graduating class. I doubt that their approach was unique and in fact was consistent with other hard offers received. Don't believe me, then believe your own eyes. How many of the top position players in this past years WCWS were impressive defensively? The kids were obviously recruited for their bats irrespective, at least to some degree, of the position they played.

This notion that these college kids are not paid. Right. Do their scholarships continue if they decide to quit the team? Nope. So what is the $30K tuition per year for, that we don't have to pay for my kid to attend that college? I doubt that it is because they prize her 2.9 GPA. Legal tender is the criteria for determining whether it constitutes payment? If a company pays for your housing costs do you consider that to be part of your compensation package? And BTW, the housing costs my kid will be given are rather generous WRT to the cost of housing at that location.

Finally, the notion that college players should play at 18 Gold Nationals. I'll just say that I don't think it would be fair for HS kids to compete in the classroom against top students with a year of college under their belt. How is softball different? Or maybe you think it is fair, as long as they are the same age.

It's your board. I'm just an uninvited visitor. Frankly, I will read the responses and not likely respond. Like the old Who song says "I don't need to fight to prove I'm right ..." Especially since I may well be wrong on every point.

That would surely be a first and oh so painful. (sarcasm)

Oh BTW Wade, I suggested you go F**K yourself on HeyBucket with the assumption you would take issue with it. My response was going to be to quote your post to SSarge and say I was just "goofing around."

Regards,
John

Wow...sometimes we "live by the sword...and sometimes we die by the sword".

Just goofin!!

[bestviewofall]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

Have the organizers of the event decided what rule book they will be choosing to have enforced?

Mark,

At this point, to my knowledge, there has been no discussion (at least among us working stiffs) about that question. At this time there is far more important things for them to organize than whether or not a second rounding or returning obstruction is an automatic next base.

Unless they already have and not told their people to tell us.

11 months away....

Smokey

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by bestviewofall

Mark,

whether or not a second rounding or returning obstruction is an automatic next base.

Guess I'm gonna have to ask what a "second rounding" is?

And, IMO, automatic awards do not help the game or players.

[DNTXUM P]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Guess I'm gonna have to ask what a "second rounding" is?

And, IMO, automatic awards do not help the game or players.

It's a reference to NCAA rules.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by bestviewofall

Mark,

At this point, to my knowledge, there has been no discussion (at least among us working stiffs) about that question. At this time there is far more important things for them to organize than whether or not a second rounding or returning obstruction is an automatic next base.

Unless they already have and not told their people to tell us.

11 months away....

Smokey

I know. I was trying to steer the conversation into a more productive direction.

Arguing over things that don't matter or can't be changed is a little like being married.