Tagup Responsibilities

[chymechowder]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

What sounds odd to me is why the base umpire would call the routine catch?? Calling catch/no catch is reserved for "going out", which certainly isn't appropriate for a "routine" fly ball.

Let the PU make the routine call, and the BU has the runner; every part of the runner, the tag, the advance to 2nd (if it happens), the return play back to 1st (if it happens). If BU concentrates on the catch (versus first touch), then he will lose the release point by the runner.

If the ball drops, PU picks up the lead runner into 3rd, BU still has 1st and 2nd, like always.

OK, that's an interesting point. In my scenario, I've got the BU making the catch/no catch call even if he's not going out. So your response at least answers my question about why one guy would do both.

Buuut, I guess I still have another question, and I suppose it's one of general mechanics. With a runner on first, I assume the ASA BU's pre-pitch position is around 2nd base? If so, he's never going to be able to have both the touch and the tag in front of him. Maybe if it's down the RF line. But anything to center or left is going to require him to see first touch then whip his head around to see when the runner releases. There's going to be a gap. Unless he's only LISTENING for first touch, which I dont imagine he's doing.

So I guess I come back to: with (just) a man on first, isn't the home plate umpire in a better position to rule on first touch vs. runner leaving?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by chymechowder

OK, that's an interesting point. In my scenario, I've got the BU making the catch/no catch call even if he's not going out. So your response at least answers my question about why one guy would do both.

Buuut, I guess I still have another question, and I suppose it's one of general mechanics. With a runner on first, I assume the ASA BU's pre-pitch position is around 2nd base? If so, he's never going to be able to have both the touch and the tag in front of him. Maybe if it's down the RF line. But anything to center or left is going to require him to see first touch then whip his head around to see when the runner releases. There's going to be a gap. Unless he's only LISTENING for first touch, which I dont imagine he's doing.

So I guess I come back to: with (just) a man on first, isn't the home plate umpire in a better position to rule on first touch vs. runner leaving?

With a runner on 1st (or no runners on), the pre-pitch position is behind the 2nd baseman, and shaded toward the first base side. If the F4 plays extremely deep, then "behind" becomes behind a line drawn between the F4 and F3, again shaded toward first base. Only if F4 is deep AND shifted way around on a big lefty does the BU get anywhere near 2nd base.

After buttonhooking into the infield as the ball is hit into left field, the BU has almost the exact same view and angle, if not better, as the PU who is hustling down the third base line to see the catch. So, as NCASAUMP said, if PU is doing his job, and BU is properly doing his job, then it makes no sense for PU to call the tag occuring about 90' away behind his right ear, when the BU can see it from 20' away in his peripheral vision.

[chymechowder]

Ah, ok. I definitely assumed some positioning similarities between ASA and USSSA that clearly don't exist! (At least not in the U-trip league I was schooled in.)

Our BU's, with any runners on any base, are always just inside 2B, cheating a step or towards 1B.

BU's don't go out on balls, even ones that are going to be questionable on the catch--which I think is definitely weird. They're always inside the basepaths. And the BU's have just about every out call in the outfield, routine or otherwise. One exception: nobody on base, someone hits a high fly down the RF line. BU will run from his starting position (behind 1B) to get in position to rule on a potential play at 2B, and the PU will have the catch/no catch in right.

Thanks for the replies--even though there was some unwitting "apples and oranges" going on there!