Ball contacts runner, defense shorthanded

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

But you can see that theres a qualifying statement in the last part of the rule "nother fielder has an opportunity to make an out". I wasnt there when the rules were written, but it doesnt take a giant leap in reasoning to believe this sentiment is also applicable in the first part of the rule "before is passes another infielder". Lets face it, the ASA rules arent the most well written document, and I dont think the rules ppl foresaw a team playing without a 1B.

That being said, technically its an out, but thats like a cop giving someone a jaywalking ticket when they walk 1' out of the crosswalk, yes they were out of the crosswalk but they were still in walking "in" the designated area.

Let's take this example to a more likely (non-shorthanded) scenario, and say F3 is shifted to where F4 normally would play, with F4 playing behind second. Would you not have an out if R1 is two steps off first when struck by a batted ball? Absolutely. The ball had not passed an infielder, made contact with a runner while not in contact with the base.

"Opportunity to make an out" is not a requirement for this part of the rule. This only comes into play IF the ball passes an infielder.

To better use your crosswalk analogy: no crosswalk was painted at the street corner, but the pedestrian crossed in the middle of the street. Still breaking the law.

[MrRabbit]

ASA 8.7 THE RUNNER IS OUT

K. When a runner is struck with a fair untouched batted ball while not in contact with a base and before is passes another infielder excluding the pitcher, or it passes an infielder and another fielder has an opportunity to make an out.
EFFECT: The ball is dead and the runner is out. All other runners must return to the last base legally touched at the time of the interference.

Did the ball pass an infielderer? I know you are trying to apply common sense here. However, assuming R2 was not in contact with the base, the rules do not allow any call other than "out" on the given play.


I am not calling an out because of a DMD... "Dumb Move Defense" You show up short handed leaving position without a player and want me to call an out, I don't think so. For the rule to work you must have a player in the position. NO freebies.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MrRabbit

I am not calling an out because of a DMD... "Dumb Move Defense" You show up short handed leaving position without a player and want me to call an out, I don't think so. For the rule to work you must have a player in the position. NO freebies.

If there is any dumb move, how about a runner getting hit by a ball batted by a team mate while there is no defensive presence or pressure?

For as much as we know, the team is shorthanded because one of their players was tripped with a fake tag going into 2B and could not continue .

Sorry, Bubba, but you lose the protest.

[Tru_in_Blu]

The defense can play all their players on the left side of the infield/outfield if they want, and if a batted ball contacts a runner from 1B who is not in contact with a base, it's a dead ball and the runner is out.

Can't polish that turd any other way.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

The defense can play all their players on the left side of the infield/outfield if they want, and if a batted ball contacts a runner from 1B who is not in contact with a base, it's a dead ball and the runner is out.

Can't polish that turd any other way.

And this is exactly how I would rule. If ASA had meant for us to call the runner safe in this sitch, they would have provided us with a clear exception to the rule. Since they didn't, we can only rule one way: out.

[ctblue]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

And this is exactly how I would rule. If ASA had meant for us to call the runner safe in this sitch, they would have provided us with a clear exception to the rule. Since they didn't, we can only rule one way: out.

The rule was obviously written with the assumption that the infielders were in their normal positions with a chance to make an out on a ground ball. The rule book can't provide exceptions for every abnormal situation, so I think that common sense should be used. The defensive team was obviously willing to let a ground ball hit to the right side go through to the outfield. As long as R2 did not intentionally contact the ball, I have no call unless F9 or another fielder had a chance to make an out. Sorry DC, I'm not giving you an out when you had no chance to make one.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by ctblue

The rule was obviously written with the assumption that the infielders were in their normal positions with a chance to make an out on a ground ball. The rule book can't provide exceptions for every abnormal situation, so I think that common sense should be used. The defensive team was obviously willing to let a ground ball hit to the right side go through to the outfield. As long as R2 did not intentionally contact the ball, I have no call unless F9 or another fielder had a chance to make an out. Sorry DC, I'm not giving you an out when you had no chance to make one.

Another lost protest.

Why not just let the runner kick the ball? After all, if intent is no longer the criteria and you insist that a possible immediate play must be available for INT, then there can be no penalty, right? And as a follow up to that, I guess possible subsequent play on this or any other runners is irrelevant, right?

Or you can just call the rules as directed by the book and avoid all the other BS.