Australia vs. USA

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by ronald

They make fewer errors when all is said and done.

The umpire who botched the call in this thread was Elite.

We all make errors, and yes, Elite usually makes fewer errors than the average umpire. Still happens, though.

[ronald]

Originally Posted by outathm

What about college umpires who have had their paperwork lost for three years (at least), or the college umpires who are eligible for 'elite' status but do not want to spend money to be eligible for tourneys their metro will never put them in for and don't want to go to anyhow?

I don't think it will be long and I will feel the same. Already a quarter way there.

Originally Posted by outathm

But when it is said and done, work the mechanics and call the outs 'out', and safes 'safe'. That is what really matters.

Agree but I have a hard time with those who fail to do what they say they are going to do. It's a fact of life and I just want to tar and feather those types of individuals.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by outathm

What about college umpires who have had their paperwork lost for three years (at least), or the college umpires who are eligible for 'elite' status but do not want to spend money to be eligible for tourneys their metro will never put them in for and don't want to go to anyhow?

Elite is a nice piece of paper on the 'I love me' wall. But when it is said and done, work the mechanics and call the outs 'out', and safes 'safe'. That is what really matters.

To add on to this question - the college umpires who's ASA district won't send anyone to an ASA national. That's how it is in PA's district 4.

[outathm]

Steve has a good point. I know first hand how hard it is to live in that type of district, or a district where ASA is almost non existent. What about the person who moves for work every 3 to 4 years? All of these are factors in getting the right nationals to get elite, but it still does not make that person less of an umpire.

[ronald]

Originally Posted by Steve M

To add on to this question - the college umpires who's ASA district won't send anyone to an ASA national. That's how it is in PA's district 4.

That sucks. Get rid of that guy. Why does ASA keep him?

I am in the move every 4-6 year boat.

Will probably move next year and will be no softball where I go if I go. Uncle Same decides that.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by ronald

That sucks. Get rid of that guy. Why does ASA keep him?

I am in the move every 4-6 year boat.

Will probably move next year and will be no softball where I go if I go. Uncle Same decides that.

You're right. It sucks. But I don't get a vote as to keep him or not. So, I work for some other groups in the summer. I've done 2 ASA tournaments this year - one working for Big Slick and the other in Mike's neighborhood,

[topper]

What about the college umpires who haven't sent any paperwork in and have no desire to work a Nationals? Are they capable of doing a good job on the college field? Or an ASA field for that matter?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by ronald

That sucks. Get rid of that guy. Why does ASA keep him?

I am in the move every 4-6 year boat.

Will probably move next year and will be no softball where I go if I go. Uncle Same decides that.

As long as it's not the YSISF league...

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by outathm

Steve has a good point. I know first hand how hard it is to live in that type of district, or a district where ASA is almost non existent. What about the person who moves for work every 3 to 4 years? All of these are factors in getting the right nationals to get elite, but it still does not make that person less of an umpire.

Well, you know what, sometimes life sucks. I can appreciate Steve's circumstance as I have experienced the effect of his bane and it does suck. I don't think our opinions are very different.

If it were up to me, the UICs would run the umpire program, not the commissioners, but that isn't the case and the downside of this rears it's head in certain areas, Steve's being one of which I am aware.

However, what is there to be said for someone who attempts to diminish the accomplishments of others to "a nice piece of paper on the 'I love me' wall." for whatever reason?

[ronald]

Originally Posted by topper

What about the college umpires who haven't sent any paperwork in and have no desire to work a Nationals? Are they capable of doing a good job on the college field? Or an ASA field for that matter?

Yes.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by topper

What about the college umpires who haven't sent any paperwork in and have no desire to work a Nationals?

What about them? What about those who cannot work certain games, levels or classes due to family and career commitments, but can do the occasional weeknight and weekend tournaments? Are they any less an umpire than those to whom you refer?

Are they capable of doing a good job on the college field? Or an ASA field for that matter?

Couldn't tell you and you don't know, either. Neither of us would without personal observation. That is unless you are insinuating that those who work college ball are better merely because they get a college schedule. I think you are smarter than that.

There are many great local/conference/league umpires that just don't fair well away from the comfortable confines of familiar fields and teams. Over the past 20+ years I have run into many an umpire with a great reputation and then I see them work and try to figure out if this guy/gal ever attended a school or clinic!

At the Richmond Round Robin quite a few years ago, we were told by umpires and players how lucky we were to be scheduled at a certain field because the umpire assigned there was a legend. One umpire told me this is exactly the type of umpire he wanted to become.

Well, wasn't impressed with his white golf shirt over long black slacks uniform (this was an ASA tournament in Henry's backyard). Maybe this was an association uniform. His vocals could not be heard by the pitcher and wasn't much more than a whisper. The strike/out signal barely got above his shoulder, safe signal was non-existent and he spent the entire game splitting and spitting sunflower seeds and the most movement from the plate (one-umpire game) was when he was sweeping away the empty shells with his feet.

So, here is this local legend that I would be embarrassed to assign a game anywhere.

[topper]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

What about them? What about those who cannot work certain games, levels or classes due to family and career commitments, but can do the occasional weeknight and weekend tournaments? Are they any less an umpire than those to whom you refer?

Not at all.

Couldn't tell you and you don't know, either. Neither of us would without personal observation. That is unless you are insinuating that those who work college ball are better merely because they get a college schedule. I think you are smarter than that.

I have made personal observations and have evaluated many prospective college officials that have chosen a different path than ASA. That was not my point however. My post was in response to ronald's expectation that elite/ISF umpires would be better college umpires than others. Believe me, I run across plenty poor collegiate officials as I'm sure you do as well. Incidentally, some of those are elite/ISF, some are not. Titles, certifications, and even NCAA post-season experience mean very little when the ball is in play.

[ronald]

Originally Posted by topper

Not at all.



I have made personal observations and have evaluated many prospective college officials that have chosen a different path than ASA. That was not my point however. My post was in response to ronald's expectation that elite/ISF umpires would be better college umpires than others. Believe me, I run across plenty poor collegiate officials as I'm sure you do as well. Incidentally, some of those are elite/ISF, some are not. Titles, certifications, and even NCAA post-season experience mean very little when the ball is in play.

That expectation is subject to change as I gather more info and see more umps.

[outathm]

I was not trying to downgrade anyone's accomplishments on or off the field. I do know that there are a lot of fine umpires who do not have the 'credentials' that are what some are looking for ie. Elite, multiple ASA nationals etc.

I too have worked with bad NCAA umpires. I have also worked with bad ASA umpires. No organization has a monopoly on good or bad umpires and to expect something from someone because of the initials behind their name is a mistake.

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Originally Posted by outathm

I was not trying to downgrade anyone's accomplishments on or off the field. I do know that there are a lot of fine umpires who do not have the 'credentials' that are what some are looking for ie. Elite, multiple ASA nationals etc.

I too have worked with bad NCAA umpires. I have also worked with bad ASA umpires. No organization has a monopoly on good or bad umpires and to expect something from someone because of the initials behind their name is a mistake.

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