Australia vs. USA

[topper]

What about the college umpires who haven't sent any paperwork in and have no desire to work a Nationals? Are they capable of doing a good job on the college field? Or an ASA field for that matter?

[ronald]

Originally Posted by topper

What about the college umpires who haven't sent any paperwork in and have no desire to work a Nationals? Are they capable of doing a good job on the college field? Or an ASA field for that matter?

Yes.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by topper

What about the college umpires who haven't sent any paperwork in and have no desire to work a Nationals?

What about them? What about those who cannot work certain games, levels or classes due to family and career commitments, but can do the occasional weeknight and weekend tournaments? Are they any less an umpire than those to whom you refer?

Are they capable of doing a good job on the college field? Or an ASA field for that matter?

Couldn't tell you and you don't know, either. Neither of us would without personal observation. That is unless you are insinuating that those who work college ball are better merely because they get a college schedule. I think you are smarter than that.

There are many great local/conference/league umpires that just don't fair well away from the comfortable confines of familiar fields and teams. Over the past 20+ years I have run into many an umpire with a great reputation and then I see them work and try to figure out if this guy/gal ever attended a school or clinic!

At the Richmond Round Robin quite a few years ago, we were told by umpires and players how lucky we were to be scheduled at a certain field because the umpire assigned there was a legend. One umpire told me this is exactly the type of umpire he wanted to become.

Well, wasn't impressed with his white golf shirt over long black slacks uniform (this was an ASA tournament in Henry's backyard). Maybe this was an association uniform. His vocals could not be heard by the pitcher and wasn't much more than a whisper. The strike/out signal barely got above his shoulder, safe signal was non-existent and he spent the entire game splitting and spitting sunflower seeds and the most movement from the plate (one-umpire game) was when he was sweeping away the empty shells with his feet.

So, here is this local legend that I would be embarrassed to assign a game anywhere.

[topper]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

What about them? What about those who cannot work certain games, levels or classes due to family and career commitments, but can do the occasional weeknight and weekend tournaments? Are they any less an umpire than those to whom you refer?

Not at all.

Couldn't tell you and you don't know, either. Neither of us would without personal observation. That is unless you are insinuating that those who work college ball are better merely because they get a college schedule. I think you are smarter than that.

I have made personal observations and have evaluated many prospective college officials that have chosen a different path than ASA. That was not my point however. My post was in response to ronald's expectation that elite/ISF umpires would be better college umpires than others. Believe me, I run across plenty poor collegiate officials as I'm sure you do as well. Incidentally, some of those are elite/ISF, some are not. Titles, certifications, and even NCAA post-season experience mean very little when the ball is in play.

[ronald]

Originally Posted by topper

Not at all.



I have made personal observations and have evaluated many prospective college officials that have chosen a different path than ASA. That was not my point however. My post was in response to ronald's expectation that elite/ISF umpires would be better college umpires than others. Believe me, I run across plenty poor collegiate officials as I'm sure you do as well. Incidentally, some of those are elite/ISF, some are not. Titles, certifications, and even NCAA post-season experience mean very little when the ball is in play.

That expectation is subject to change as I gather more info and see more umps.

[outathm]

I was not trying to downgrade anyone's accomplishments on or off the field. I do know that there are a lot of fine umpires who do not have the 'credentials' that are what some are looking for ie. Elite, multiple ASA nationals etc.

I too have worked with bad NCAA umpires. I have also worked with bad ASA umpires. No organization has a monopoly on good or bad umpires and to expect something from someone because of the initials behind their name is a mistake.

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Originally Posted by outathm

I was not trying to downgrade anyone's accomplishments on or off the field. I do know that there are a lot of fine umpires who do not have the 'credentials' that are what some are looking for ie. Elite, multiple ASA nationals etc.

I too have worked with bad NCAA umpires. I have also worked with bad ASA umpires. No organization has a monopoly on good or bad umpires and to expect something from someone because of the initials behind their name is a mistake.

ratified

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by outathm

I was not trying to downgrade anyone's accomplishments on or off the field. I do know that there are a lot of fine umpires who do not have the 'credentials' that are what some are looking for ie. Elite, multiple ASA nationals etc.

I too have worked with bad NCAA umpires. I have also worked with bad ASA umpires. No organization has a monopoly on good or bad umpires and to expect something from someone because of the initials behind their name is a mistake.

Absolutely no argument there, but now a question. If someone was qualified for a certain level, why not take the step?

Who knows where or what it will get you.

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Absolutely no argument there, but now a question. If someone was qualified for a certain level, why not take the step?

Who knows where or what it will get you.

The reasons can be numerous. This year I got the invite to do college ball. I have my first training tournament right after Nationals.
The travel-so now I have to be prepared to travel 6 hours roundtrip. Being the new guy I've been told to expect to have that trip several times this year.
Next month I have to travel and spend the weekend in a desolated Central Valley town doing a tourney. I'm not that excited about that trip and weekend away from home.
I also have some concerns about college ball being run by the coaches. I'm not exactly sure what that means in real time but I'm not the most coach friendly guy in the world. So that may be an issue.
Also the college assignor and I have had our moments. It was over an ejection at a National he was UIC for blah,blah,blah. I stood my ground but there was consequences. I'm not in his fraternity and I'm not one of his good ole boys...he actually caught me off guard when he asked me to do college ball. I heard there was pressure on him to get a little younger, and I guess I qualify as a little younger.....

So traveling, not wanting to deal with the college caoches, and not willing to suck up are three reasons off the top of my head I can come up with.

Having said all that I am going to try it this year with an open minded attitude. If it works out great,if not back to HS and my weekends of ASA ball.

[topper]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

... If someone was qualified for a certain level, why not take the step?

Who knows where or what it will get you.

I hate to hijack a hijacked thread, and will probably wish I hadn't, but for some it comes down to this: Lower pay than weekend round robins, no travel, no hotel. Before everyone starts, it's not all about the money; it's about the mentality of some in ASA that you should be compensated less than usual to provide a service to a certain customer because it's an honor to do so. IMO, an umpire should not be any more honored to work a game than the participants are to have him/her work their game.

[outathm]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Absolutely no argument there, but now a question. If someone was qualified for a certain level, why not take the step?

Who knows where or what it will get you.

I agree. There is no really good reason not to take the next step. Some choose not to. It's kind of like quitting smoking.

For me the reason is simple. 2-3 ASA local tourneys a year. I am loyal to ASA in that they got me my start in 'real' softball, and will continue to register and work ASA where possible. I am not the type that needs a label attatched to my name or a list to know what I can do.

Watch me on the field, and I will try my best to prove myself there.