Properly noting a "benched" defensive player

[youngump]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I went backand reread the entire thread, and realized that we skipped over something, here. What is shown really isn't legal as a starting lineup.

To be legit, the coach needs to turn position 6 as his catcher (2), and position 8 as his DP; period. As soon as the lineup is accepted as official, he then announces that his DP will be playing catcher. Let the PU then mark whatever (or not).

In that case, as I said, I would note #8 now at 2, and #6 now at B. But I wouldn't take the starting linup that way (not sure I can't, just wouldn't).

Wouldn't this have implications for the CR rule? I don't have my book at work but doesn't it say that in the top of the first the catcher is the player listed at that the position in the starting lineup. So I'm thinking until the DP has actually caught, no CR?
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[DaveASA/FED]

Originally Posted by youngump

Wouldn't this have implications for the CR rule? I don't have my book at work but doesn't it say that in the top of the first the catcher is the player listed at that the position in the starting lineup. So I'm thinking until the DP has actually caught, no CR?

If the DP is put in as F2 at the plate conference they they are the catcher of record, thus eligible for a CR in the top of the first if they make their way on base. Again a reason to keep track of the DP's activity on defense!

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

If the DP is put in as F2 at the plate conference they they are the catcher of record, thus eligible for a CR in the top of the first if they make their way on base. Again a reason to keep track of the DP's activity on defense!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but making a change after the linesups have been accepted as official counts as a substitution. By rule, the visitors can only use a CR for those individuals listed in those positions in the starting lineup. Since we agree that players in the order 1 thru 9 must be designated a defensive position prior to accepting any substitutions, that means #6 (who would have to be listed as catcher in the starting lineup) would be eligibile for a CR in the top of the 1st and #8 would have to run for herself.

[JEL]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

Correct me if I'm wrong, but making a change after the linesups have been accepted as official counts as a substitution. By rule, the visitors can only use a CR for those individuals listed in those positions in the starting lineup. Since we agree that players in the order 1 thru 9 must be designated a defensive position prior to accepting any substitutions, that means #6 (who would have to be listed as catcher in the starting lineup) would be eligibile for a CR in the top of the 1st and #8 would have to run for herself.

The rule states "In the top of the first inning only, the pitcher and catcher are identified as those players listed on the line up as the pitcher and catcher." ASA 8-10-B

Since "starting lineup" isn't mentioned couldn't the FLEX be entered for F1 or F2?

EDIT PART; Assuming of course the F1, or F2 were the DP, or does 8-10-E have any bearing? The FLEX wouldn't technically become the DP.

[RadioBlue]

JEL:
I understand your point. However, I believe the intent of the rule is for F1 and F2 to receive the benefit of the CR as listed on the starting lineup. Since my lineup could conceiveably change multiple times during the top of the 1st, under your interpretation, I could have multiple CRs due to the fact as manager I could "change" who my F1 and/or F2 is during the top of the 1st.

Looks as if this would be a good case for an editorial change to clarify the matter.

[RadioBlue]

Certainly the FLEX could enter for F1 or F2 after the lineups are accepted as official. However, the FLEX would not be entitled to a CR.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

JEL:
I understand your point. However, I believe the intent of the rule is for F1 and F2 to receive the benefit of the CR as listed on the starting lineup. Since my lineup could conceiveably change multiple times during the top of the 1st, under your interpretation, I could have multiple CRs due to the fact as manager I could "change" who my F1 and/or F2 is during the top of the 1st.

Looks as if this would be a good case for an editorial change to clarify the matter.

Speaking ASA

There is no change necessary. Actually, the rule is pretty clear.

The team batting in the top of the first is not going to have a defensive change. After that, what you have noted on your line-up card is relatively irrelevant as to who can or cannot enjoy the benefit of a courtesy runner.

[JEL]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA

There is no change necessary. Actually, the rule is pretty clear.

The team batting in the top of the first is not going to have a defensive change. After that, what you have noted on your line-up card is relatively irrelevant as to who can or cannot enjoy the benefit of a courtesy runner.

While I do agree, I still see where an addition of the phrase "starting line-up" or line-up "as submitted" or (F1 and F2) "as listed by the coach" would simplify it some (to me anyway).

[youngump]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA

There is no change necessary. Actually, the rule is pretty clear.

The team batting in the top of the first is not going to have a defensive change. After that, what you have noted on your line-up card is relatively irrelevant as to who can or cannot enjoy the benefit of a courtesy runner.

I think the point is what if the coach comes out and gives you a defensive change. Blue, that real slow runner who just got on, I've decided to have her catch next inning. *Turns around* Time, I've got a CR for my catcher.
Not taking the position change until it happens works great for every inning except the top of the 1st. For that we're applying common sense, but the rule could be more clear.
(Or in the incident case, at the plate meeting, I've decided to have my bench only hitter catch)
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