INT on a DP?

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

If that is true, those guys were truly idiots and shouldn't be on the field as umpires. Then again, based on your postings, I doubt that is a true scenario.
.

Little right for Tribe but Pavano in loss | indians.com: News

when can I expect your apology??

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Little right for Tribe but Pavano in loss | indians.com: News

when can I expect your apology??

For what, you misrepresenting the situation?

To start, MLB umpires do not all know the rules as many, if not most softball umpires strive to. Each crew has at least one rules guru which is why you see them huddle most times when a rule interpretation is needed.

You clearly claimed that the umpires judged the BR to be fast and awarded him 1B. No such thing happened. They ruled the ball fair and called the "fast" runner out at 1B.

The difference in softball is that the umpire who made the initial call NEVER loses that call on the field short of a protest. In baseball, apparently the crew chief can make the ruling which is what seemed to happen here.

All you have done is convince me you are full of $hit and have absolutely no interest in intelligent conversation.

Say hi to the piano man!

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

For what, you misrepresenting the situation?

To start, MLB umpires do not all know the rules as many, if not most softball umpires strive to. Each crew has at least one rules guru which is why you see them huddle most times when a rule interpretation is needed.

You clearly claimed that the umpires judged the BR to be fast and awarded him 1B. No such thing happened. They ruled the ball fair and called the "fast" runner out at 1B.

The difference in softball is that the umpire who made the initial call NEVER loses that call on the field short of a protest. In baseball, apparently the crew chief can make the ruling which is what seemed to happen here.

All you have done is convince me you are full of $hit and have absolutely no interest in intelligent conversation.

Say hi to the piano man!

Sorry i mispoke earlier, I dont memorize every single play that happens in MLB history (I found the video of that play after I posted the description. BUT the point of my earlier post is still pertinent. A play happen, the PU made a call, which was his call to make, and it was overturned.

Just review the last ~10 posts and youll see a number of ppl saying that umps cannot overturn another umps call. I asked if it was different in MLB than ASA, bc I know it happens in MLB, and I gave an example from a few weeks ago that showed a MLB umps having his called overturned.

Do yourself a favor and actually read what I wrote and you'll see I merely respond to whatever ppl post towards me and sometimes post a replying question. When have I ever posted something factual incorrect about the rules of softball?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

When have I ever posted something factual incorrect about the rules of softball?

Uh, right here?

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Or was I wrong in saying the PU can override the BU???

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

To start, MLB umpires do not all know the rules as many, if not most softball umpires strive to. Each crew has at least one rules guru which is why you see them huddle most times when a rule interpretation is needed.

I'll piggyback onto this. This is not only true in baseball, but it will be true in football and basketball as well. Watch an NFL or college game this fall, and you'll see at times, they'll beckon someone from the back of the team (the 3 guys you see behind the defensive backfield) or the lineman opposite side into a huddle because that person may be an expert on the rule they need clarification on. My HS football crew does this all the time. We even do it in basketball when we work 3-whistle, and sometimes there's a crazy situation that needs discussing. It depends on the infraction or the situation at hand, there'll be someone on the crew who knows the rule better and is consulted before any penalty (if any) is handed down.

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

I'll piggyback onto this. This is not only true in baseball, but it will be true in football and basketball as well. Watch an NFL or college game this fall, and you'll see at times, they'll beckon someone from the back of the team (the 3 guys you see behind the defensive backfield) or the lineman opposite side into a huddle because that person may be an expert on the rule they need clarification on. My HS football crew does this all the time. We even do it in basketball when we work 3-whistle, and sometimes there's a crazy situation that needs discussing. It depends on the infraction or the situation at hand, there'll be someone on the crew who knows the rule better and is consulted before any penalty (if any) is handed down.

Take this example, in baseball, softball, LL... 2 man crew, runner on 1st, batter his a ground rule double, 1 ump awards the runner home. Now the other ump, knowing this is wrong, huddles with the other ump to discuss the situation. You guys call this conferring with a rules guru, I call it the other ump overturned a bad call by his partner. its 6 or a half dozen.

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Take this example, in baseball, softball, LL... 2 man crew, runner on 1st, batter his a ground rule double, 1 ump awards the runner home. Now the other ump, knowing this is wrong, huddles with the other ump to discuss the situation. You guys call this conferring with a rules guru, I call it the other ump overturned a bad call by his partner. its 6 or a half dozen.

Two totally different things. Conferring with a rules guru is getting it right through discussion. Overturning a call is getting it screwed up by egotisically sticking their a$$ in where it doesn't belong.

[ronald]

Steve,

I think it is time for you to try to become an umpire. Good luck.

[wadeintothem]

Hey, you know I had that happen last tourney - Daddy baller coaching moaning and groaning whole game - girl's momentum carried the ball into DB territory, I was BU. PU doesnt give an award, says it must be intentional.. so I start to mosey up there to perhaps assist... and the coach points at me face "And that call in the first inning was terrible." (banger at 1st which was out)

So the now abbreviated conversation got side tracked into how much longer he was going to be participating if he didnt stop his BS.. and I plum forgot all about his goofed up award. Boy I hate distractions..

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Hey, you know I had that happen last tourney - Daddy baller coaching moaning and groaning whole game - girl's momentum carried the ball into DB territory, I was BU. PU doesnt give an award, says it must be intentional.. so I start to mosey up there to perhaps assist... and the coach points at me face "And that call in the first inning was terrible." (banger at 1st which was out)

So the now abbreviated conversation got side tracked into how much longer he was going to be participating if he didnt stop his BS.. and I plum forgot all about his goofed up award. Boy I hate distractions..

Did you "reward" his distracting you with a trip to the parking lot?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Did you "reward" his distracting you with a trip to the parking lot?

I'm soooo biting my lip on this one...

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Did you "reward" his distracting you with a trip to the parking lot?

Oh hell no, that wasnt happening if that could be avoided. It was 106-108 and he was getting handled pretty well on an elimination game. He wasnt going anywhere. We were gonna enjoy the rest of this game together. But I sure made him think I was gonna send him.

If he knew how to coach he could have just asked my partner to confer with me, but he was just a jerk blowing steam and it cost him. Guess he'd rather be a jerk than a coach advocating for his team.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Take this example, in baseball, softball, LL... 2 man crew, runner on 1st, batter his a ground rule double, 1 ump awards the runner home. Now the other ump, knowing this is wrong, huddles with the other ump to discuss the situation. You guys call this conferring with a rules guru, I call it the other ump overturned a bad call by his partner. its 6 or a half dozen.

No, no, no. This is not an umpire "overturning" someone else's call. This is an umpire who needs more information and seeks out on his own the perspective of his associate. However, no umpire should EVER seek out to change their associate's call, no matter how dead-a$$ wrong it is. To do so is overstepping your bounds, and it would only serve to throw said partner under the bus.

Oh, and furthermore... No.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Little right for Tribe but Pavano in loss | indians.com: News

when can I expect your apology??

I can't overstate this, but... This is NOT MLB. It is clearly stated in the ASA rule book that no umpire has the right to set aside the judgment of another umpire who ruled within their respective duties.

MLB obviously feels differently from ASA about this:

ASA 10-3-B: Under no circumstances will any umpire seek to reverse a decision made by an associate, nor will any umpire criticize or interfere with the duties of their associate(s) unless asked to do so.

The last 5 words of that sentence are key.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Originally Posted by steveshane67
Is softball different than baseball in the fact the baseball umps will meet, discuss a "contested" play and make a "second" ruling? There was a play a few weeks ago, slow dribbler down the first base line, the pitcher or firstbaseman ran over, fielded the ball as their momentum carried then into foul territory. The PU ruled foul ball. The umps met after the OC argued (ball was hit too slow for the fast runner to be put out) and ruled fair ball and awarded the BR 1B. Since that call was the PUs, someone had to overrule his foul ball call....

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Little right for Tribe but Pavano in loss | indians.com: News

when can I expect your apology??

Now I'll piggypile on this guy. You described the play wrong, it was the DEFENSIVE coach who argued, and the BR was declared OUT. So you were WRONG at least on that point.

But you made a point, what about conferences and changing a call? Well, if you followed the baseball guys thread about this, they were astonished this play occurred. A phrase that is starting to make the rounds is "ringing the bell." I would bet the $44 I would get for umpiring one of your games this is the only instance of this occurring. BTW, the plate umpire, who made the error, is 1) professional and 2) makes way more than $44 a game.

We umpires do get together to get the call correct, on some plays, such as possession of the ball, pulled foot on force plays, tag/no tag, missed bases, etc. If your umpires aren't doing this, that is a local organizational issue. Remember, umpiring is customer service, and it is YOUR right to purchase any officials you want. Don't like what you get for $44 , then go with a different group. I'm sure the Boston area is crawling with groups who will do your league for less.