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INT on a DP?
this situation happened the other night.
ASA slowpitch 1 out runner on 1st groundball to 3B, throws to 2nd, gets the force out, its gonna be a close play at 1st bc the 2B isnt good and theres a fast runner. The 2B then does a little crow hop type move directly towards 1B (moving about 5' down the basepath), in the mean time, the runner, who already had been retired, continues running (about 2-3 steps after the force at 2nd) and bumps shoulders with the 2B. At the time of the shoulder bump, the 2B had his arm cocked, ready to throw, the bump knocked him off balance, and by the time he regrouped his balance, the runner was basically at 1B, so the 2B held his throw. Whats the call if any? |
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Did F4 have any shot whatsoever at retiring the BR (benefit of the doubt goes towards the defense on this)? If so, then I believe I would have INT on the play (ASA 8-7-P). The runner closest to home is out (which would be the BR).
If the bump hadn't occurred and F4 had no shot whatsoever (ie., the BR is standing on the base at the time of the bump), I'd have nothing. The key to remember is that R1 can't simply go "poof" and disappear off the field. They have to "commit an act" that hinders the defense. I would judge this "bump" to be an act of hindering the defense, so long as the defense had a remote shot at getting an out on the BR.
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Dave I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views! Screw green, it ain't easy being blue! I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again. |
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It was going to be a close play at 1st if the fielder threw the ball cleanly. I was playing in the game, the BU said that the fielder had to actually throw the ball for there to be INT, and I believe he said he would have called INT if the 2B had thrown it. Does it matter how long after the runner was retired when the shoulder bump occured? Edit, just realized that this would basically be a judgement of the runner "committing the act" Here the runner took a few more steps after being retired and made 0 effort to slide/duck/move towards RF. do rules 8 7 Q or 8 7 J 3 have any effect on this play since the runner has already been retired, or do those rules only apply to "live" runners? Last edited by steveshane67; Thu Jul 16, 2009 at 04:22pm. |
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The umpire has final judgment as to whether or not it was an act of INT. No, both of those rules pertain to a runner who has not yet been put out. If the "bump" you mentioned was flagrant (ie., clearly meant to harm someone or to start a fight), then the player would be ejected for unsportsmanlike conduct.
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Dave I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views! Screw green, it ain't easy being blue! I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again. |
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Back to an old faithful, we cannot expect a retired runner to just go "poof" the second they are put out. The runner attempting to reach 2B is not in itself an act of interference. This is a DMF since the fielder should know where the runner should be at the time and made a clear decision to attempt to use the same space as the runner. Of course, as with anything involving this type of judgment, we would have to see it for a definitive decision. |
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I didnt really have a problem with the BU not calling INT bc the 2B was way out of position and it was a judgement call as too how much time the runner had to "get out of the way", although it seemed like an eternity from my point of view, but his reasoning is what got me. almost like the jeter caught stealing 3rd base play a few weeks ago play. jeter was safe due to a nifty slide, but the ump, allegedly, called him out bc the "ball beat him" 8 7 J 3, while it does not apply here, clearly says a fielder attempting to throw the ball, and 8 7 P says a retired runner interfering with a fielders opportunity to make a play (which if the runner had been retired 5s b4 the bump, he'd clearly be in violation of 8 7 p) so to me, no throw is ever required. |
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See Dave's explanation above: Quote:
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It's what you learn after you think you know it all that's important! |
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8-7-R is one of the few rules I have memorized verbatim. Those umpires were quickly corrected that night.
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Dave I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views! Screw green, it ain't easy being blue! I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again. |
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The fielder actually throwing the ball shouldn't be a necessary requirement for INT, in my opinion. What if the runner jumps up in the air, facing the infielder (I've seen a nutjob do this), and the fielder holds the ball b/c his instinct is NOT to fire the ball into someone's face?
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Dave I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views! Screw green, it ain't easy being blue! I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again. |
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The kernel of truth in the "must attempt a throw" is that there must be a play for there to be interference. A fielder holding a throw because there is no shot at the out is not interference, regardless of where the runner is. The judgment comes from determining if the runner committed an act of interference (with a play).
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Tom |
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Im sure that there are tons and tons of good ASA umps out there, just usually not the ones doing games I play in. maybe the good umps here do fast pitch??? |
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Maybe the first word in that phrase escapes you: "recreational." You're not going to find all rec league umps at the same level. Some call Nationals, most don't. Give me a break, it's rec league. While it should be the goal of every umpire to be perfect the first game and to improve every game thereafter, the reality is that we're all human. We make mistakes. We're NOT perfect. Don't expect local rec league umpires to be any different.
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Dave I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views! Screw green, it ain't easy being blue! I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again. |
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Retired Runner
I've got interference. The retired runner interfered with the defensive player's opportunity to make a play on another runner (rule 8 section 7 P).
Since the player that committed interference is already out, you can not penalize him or her for the interference. Whether the batter-runner would have been safe or out at first is irrelevent. The penalty for the interference is applied to the runner closest to home, which in this case is the batter-runner. |
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Really? If there was no realistic opportunity for an out, there was no play that was being interfered with.
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Tom |
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