INT on a DP?

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Guess what. If you had half a clue, you'd know that there's fast pitch, slow pitch, modified pitch and 16" slow pitch. Maybe if you knew a bit more about softball, you would have known that. As such, it should have been "worst," but I digress.

Sorry about the confusion about the "missuse" of a form of a verb, who knew grammar was such a priority on these boards. When I was writing the post in question, I used the form worse bc I was only thinking about FP and SP, 2 options. Yes you are correct that there are other types of softball besides those 2. And just for the record, YOU were there one who called me a jack@ss first. Dont dish it out if you cant take it back

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Little right for Tribe but Pavano in loss | indians.com: News

when can I expect your apology??

For what, you misrepresenting the situation?

To start, MLB umpires do not all know the rules as many, if not most softball umpires strive to. Each crew has at least one rules guru which is why you see them huddle most times when a rule interpretation is needed.

You clearly claimed that the umpires judged the BR to be fast and awarded him 1B. No such thing happened. They ruled the ball fair and called the "fast" runner out at 1B.

The difference in softball is that the umpire who made the initial call NEVER loses that call on the field short of a protest. In baseball, apparently the crew chief can make the ruling which is what seemed to happen here.

All you have done is convince me you are full of $hit and have absolutely no interest in intelligent conversation.

Say hi to the piano man!

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Little right for Tribe but Pavano in loss | indians.com: News

when can I expect your apology??

I can't overstate this, but... This is NOT MLB. It is clearly stated in the ASA rule book that no umpire has the right to set aside the judgment of another umpire who ruled within their respective duties.

MLB obviously feels differently from ASA about this:

ASA 10-3-B: Under no circumstances will any umpire seek to reverse a decision made by an associate, nor will any umpire criticize or interfere with the duties of their associate(s) unless asked to do so.

The last 5 words of that sentence are key.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Sorry about the confusion about the "missuse" of a form of a verb, who knew grammar was such a priority on these boards. When I was writing the post in question, I used the form worse bc I was only thinking about FP and SP, 2 options. Yes you are correct that there are other types of softball besides those 2. And just for the record, YOU were there one who called me a jack@ss first. Dont dish it out if you cant take it back

Oh, I can certainly take it. I've been at this for a very long time, and my DGAF ("don't give a f***") factor is high when it comes to whiners like yourself.

You, on the other hand, have no clue, and it would probably be better if you either changed your piano's tune or simply left. You're doing nothing more than making yourself look worse and worse with every post you make.

If you want honest answers, that's fine. Ask us questions. Just don't p1ss and moan about the one you get when it's not the one you want.

You, sir, are no umpire, and you certainly could never hack it if you ever became one.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Originally Posted by steveshane67
Is softball different than baseball in the fact the baseball umps will meet, discuss a "contested" play and make a "second" ruling? There was a play a few weeks ago, slow dribbler down the first base line, the pitcher or firstbaseman ran over, fielded the ball as their momentum carried then into foul territory. The PU ruled foul ball. The umps met after the OC argued (ball was hit too slow for the fast runner to be put out) and ruled fair ball and awarded the BR 1B. Since that call was the PUs, someone had to overrule his foul ball call....

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Little right for Tribe but Pavano in loss | indians.com: News

when can I expect your apology??

Now I'll piggypile on this guy. You described the play wrong, it was the DEFENSIVE coach who argued, and the BR was declared OUT. So you were WRONG at least on that point.

But you made a point, what about conferences and changing a call? Well, if you followed the baseball guys thread about this, they were astonished this play occurred. A phrase that is starting to make the rounds is "ringing the bell." I would bet the $44 I would get for umpiring one of your games this is the only instance of this occurring. BTW, the plate umpire, who made the error, is 1) professional and 2) makes way more than $44 a game.

We umpires do get together to get the call correct, on some plays, such as possession of the ball, pulled foot on force plays, tag/no tag, missed bases, etc. If your umpires aren't doing this, that is a local organizational issue. Remember, umpiring is customer service, and it is YOUR right to purchase any officials you want. Don't like what you get for $44 , then go with a different group. I'm sure the Boston area is crawling with groups who will do your league for less.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

BTW, the plate umpire, who made the error, is 1) professional and 2) makes way more than $44 a game.

What a minute, aren't you professional and make more than $44 a game?

Don't like what you get for $44 , then go with a different group. I'm sure the Boston area is crawling with groups who will do your league for less.

In Boston? I'm sure there a plenty of people crawling around Boston, but no way I'm working their game for under $50 and this is per umpire with three per game.

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

For what, you misrepresenting the situation?

To start, MLB umpires do not all know the rules as many, if not most softball umpires strive to. Each crew has at least one rules guru which is why you see them huddle most times when a rule interpretation is needed.

You clearly claimed that the umpires judged the BR to be fast and awarded him 1B. No such thing happened. They ruled the ball fair and called the "fast" runner out at 1B.

The difference in softball is that the umpire who made the initial call NEVER loses that call on the field short of a protest. In baseball, apparently the crew chief can make the ruling which is what seemed to happen here.

All you have done is convince me you are full of $hit and have absolutely no interest in intelligent conversation.

Say hi to the piano man!

Sorry i mispoke earlier, I dont memorize every single play that happens in MLB history (I found the video of that play after I posted the description. BUT the point of my earlier post is still pertinent. A play happen, the PU made a call, which was his call to make, and it was overturned.

Just review the last ~10 posts and youll see a number of ppl saying that umps cannot overturn another umps call. I asked if it was different in MLB than ASA, bc I know it happens in MLB, and I gave an example from a few weeks ago that showed a MLB umps having his called overturned.

Do yourself a favor and actually read what I wrote and you'll see I merely respond to whatever ppl post towards me and sometimes post a replying question. When have I ever posted something factual incorrect about the rules of softball?

[NCASAUmp]

Now, I don't know these fellas in Boston. I happen to like Boston. It's a fun town (LOVE going to the Hong Kong for their Scorpion Bowls or to Pizzeria Regina's for a slice of pie). However, a sudden realization just came over me, and if I'm wrong, I certainly mean no offense to their crew...

How do you KNOW these guys are certified? Anyone can buy the ASA shirt and pants. Anyone can wear ASA on their shirt or cap. That only means, well, they bought the uniform. We don't know if they are certified ASA.

Many years ago, I called a local league that played under ASA rules. Our uniforms were almost 100% ASA (not everyone forked over the dough to buy Fechheimer pants). Put our crew next to a tournament crew, and you couldn't tell the difference.

So again... How do you know they're legit ASA?

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Now I'll piggypile on this guy. You described the play wrong, it was the DEFENSIVE coach who argued, and the BR was declared OUT. So you were WRONG at least on that point.

But you made a point, what about conferences and changing a call? Well, if you followed the baseball guys thread about this, they were astonished this play occurred. A phrase that is starting to make the rounds is "ringing the bell." I would bet the $44 I would get for umpiring one of your games this is the only instance of this occurring. BTW, the plate umpire, who made the error, is 1) professional and 2) makes way more than $44 a game.

We umpires do get together to get the call correct, on some plays, such as possession of the ball, pulled foot on force plays, tag/no tag, missed bases, etc. If your umpires aren't doing this, that is a local organizational issue. Remember, umpiring is customer service, and it is YOUR right to purchase any officials you want. Don't like what you get for $44 , then go with a different group. I'm sure the Boston area is crawling with groups who will do your league for less.

Yes, I didnt remember exactly what happened on that specific play, basically I described it backwards, but the same philosophy still applied, so whats the big deal?? Did it really detract anything from the point of the discussion, no, so why argue over a moot issue?

And Im not the commish of the league, merely a player, players dont decide who umpires the games, the commish does

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

When have I ever posted something factual incorrect about the rules of softball?

Uh, right here?

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Or was I wrong in saying the PU can override the BU???

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Now, I don't know these fellas in Boston. I happen to like Boston. It's a fun town (LOVE going to the Hong Kong for their Scorpion Bowls or to Pizzeria Regina's for a slice of pie). However, a sudden realization just came over me, and if I'm wrong, I certainly mean no offense to their crew...

How do you KNOW these guys are certified? Anyone can buy the ASA shirt and pants. Anyone can wear ASA on their shirt or cap. That only means, well, they bought the uniform. We don't know if they are certified ASA.

Many years ago, I called a local league that played under ASA rules. Our uniforms were almost 100% ASA (not everyone forked over the dough to buy Fechheimer pants). Put our crew next to a tournament crew, and you couldn't tell the difference.

So again... How do you know they're legit ASA?

BC the league basically calls up the local office and asks for 2 umpires every night, they umps get their assignments from the league office as to what fields they go to each night. Ive had some of the same umps in this 2 ump league, ump other leagues (via the ASA office). thats how i know they are legit ASA umps. The only caveat would be if the boston ASA umps dont have to be certified and attend clinics, then I take back the last 2 pages of this thread.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Now, I don't know these fellas in Boston. I happen to like Boston.

I agree. Great city to visit, very easy to get around and not too expensive.

It's been a while since I've been up to Fenway or see my friend that works at Copley Place or visit that barely-could-pass-for-a-high-school-pratice-field, Parsons Field, that Northeastern uses for their football games.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Now, I don't know these fellas in Boston. I happen to like Boston. It's a fun town (LOVE going to the Hong Kong for their Scorpion Bowls or to Pizzeria Regina's for a slice of pie). However, a sudden realization just came over me, and if I'm wrong, I certainly mean no offense to their crew...

How do you KNOW these guys are certified? Anyone can buy the ASA shirt and pants. Anyone can wear ASA on their shirt or cap. That only means, well, they bought the uniform. We don't know if they are certified ASA.

Many years ago, I called a local league that played under ASA rules. Our uniforms were almost 100% ASA (not everyone forked over the dough to buy Fechheimer pants). Put our crew next to a tournament crew, and you couldn't tell the difference.

So again... How do you know they're legit ASA?

Take it one step further....how do we know any of the alleged incidents actually took place?

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

To start, MLB umpires do not all know the rules as many, if not most softball umpires strive to. Each crew has at least one rules guru which is why you see them huddle most times when a rule interpretation is needed.

I'll piggyback onto this. This is not only true in baseball, but it will be true in football and basketball as well. Watch an NFL or college game this fall, and you'll see at times, they'll beckon someone from the back of the team (the 3 guys you see behind the defensive backfield) or the lineman opposite side into a huddle because that person may be an expert on the rule they need clarification on. My HS football crew does this all the time. We even do it in basketball when we work 3-whistle, and sometimes there's a crazy situation that needs discussing. It depends on the infraction or the situation at hand, there'll be someone on the crew who knows the rule better and is consulted before any penalty (if any) is handed down.

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

If you want honest answers, that's fine. Ask us questions. Just don't p1ss and moan about the one you get when it's not the one you want.

You, sir, are no umpire, and you certainly could never hack it if you ever became one.

Please tell me when ive ever pissed and moaned about a rules question answer when "it's not the one I want"???

And just a FYI, I ump (2nd year) for a local league that doesnt use "certified" ASA umps, and by everyones (players, coaches, league directors, other umps) am the best ump in the league (>200 teams across A-B-C-D levels). Quick anecdote, I play in this league as well and the commish doesnt have players ump the same level as they play in for conflict of interest reasons, but after my team was knocked out of the 1st round of the playoffs, a few of the remaining captains requested that I do their remaining playoff games bc they thought so highly of me (compared to the other umps) (and they know of my umping bc many play in more than 1 level)

I find umping is actually really easy, except in the rare instances when I have to watch 4 things at once.