Whose call at 3B ?

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Bu call if help is needed because of crappy angle then go get it. its a single runner and thats the BU call

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by SRW

I disagree, Steve. Had this been a straight steal of 3B on the pitch, the BU would take any play on R1 into 3B. Why not now?

And to follow up, if the play continues past 3B to HP, the PU would take that... if he's up at 3B, that's a lot of hustle to get down for the HP call.

BU would take straight steal of 3rd, because that is the first play. If BU is working between pitches to make that pickoff call at 2nd, he will be approximately even with 2nd to get the proper 90 angle on that tag call. No way to react quickly enough to get any kind of angle at 3rd, while PU works straight up, and immediately has the better angle.

On the possible follow up, PU has NOT run completely to 3rd, as his angle and calling position is best from 10-12 from 3rd, while working fair ground. He is better capable of covering that play effectively at home from fair ground (overthrow would ALWAYS be foul ground), moving roughly 40' while runner moves 60', than BU could move 60' while runner moves 60' from 2nd to 3rd.

"Last" runner clearly implies trail, when there is a lead, or prior runner. That really doesn't apply here.

I'm fairly sure I could show you very quickly on a field (or board) how much easier it is for PU to take this call; and don't believe what you have quoted from the manual makes it BU call. At the very least, as I first stated, PU should communicate and come up for this easy angle.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by kcg NC2Ablu

Bu call if help is needed because of crappy angle then go get it. its a single runner and thats the BU call

Reread your NCAA Manual; 10.4 on page 261. BU responsibility in two umpire is first play in the infield by an infielder at first, second or third. Described first play was pickoff at 2nd (read "working between pitches, 8.5, page 140, where BU commits to a primary calling position at 2nd). The play to 3rd is now a second play, with BU very much out of calling position (90 degree to runner sliding into 3rd).

With PU in perfect position, manual does NOT make it BU call; so why do think BU needs to make a blind call and go for help? A good PU will pick that call up with perfect position 100% of the time.

[wadeintothem]

Agree a lot with Steve. BU, if doing their job, is not there for this call. Now if BU phones in the call to 2B then phones it into 3B, I guess thats ok; other than that, that BU is now way behind the runner and PU should be coming up to help a brother out. Also agree the manual does not state this is BU's call.

[ronald]

I take back what I said earlier. I got mixed up and confused with schools and overextended. We were told one thing at Va and another at Ok on the steal at second base (page 255). This is where I overextended. My fault. Sorry.

I like Steve's description.

[first2third]

BU will take this play. There is no other runner or batter runner on base. The bu is responsible for a lone runner at all bases but home. except a steal of second because of the side of the field the BU is on initially an the lack of time to get to the play.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by first2third

BU will take this play. There is no other runner or batter runner on base. The bu is responsible for a lone runner at all bases but home. except a steal of second because of the side of the field the BU is on initially an the lack of time to get to the play.

So.. um.. when exactly is PU responsible for a steal of 2B?

[SRW]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

BU would take straight steal of 3rd, because that is the first play. If BU is working between pitches to make that pickoff call at 2nd, he will be approximately even with 2nd to get the proper 90 angle on that tag call. No way to react quickly enough to get any kind of angle at 3rd, while PU works straight up, and immediately has the better angle.

On the possible follow up, PU has NOT run completely to 3rd, as his angle and calling position is best from 10-12 from 3rd, while working fair ground. He is better capable of covering that play effectively at home from fair ground (overthrow would ALWAYS be foul ground), moving roughly 40' while runner moves 60', than BU could move 60' while runner moves 60' from 2nd to 3rd.

"Last" runner clearly implies trail, when there is a lead, or prior runner. That really doesn't apply here.

I'm fairly sure I could show you very quickly on a field (or board) how much easier it is for PU to take this call; and don't believe what you have quoted from the manual makes it BU call. At the very least, as I first stated, PU should communicate and come up for this easy angle.

Don't get me wrong... I AGREE with your reasoning and think that the 2nd play in this sitch at 3B SHOULD be the PU. I just believe that right now by ASA book, it's BU's call.

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Reread your NCAA Manual; 10.4 on page 261. BU responsibility in two umpire is first play in the infield by an infielder at first, second or third. Described first play was pickoff at 2nd (read "working between pitches, 8.5, page 140, where BU commits to a primary calling position at 2nd). The play to 3rd is now a second play, with BU very much out of calling position (90 degree to runner sliding into 3rd).

With PU in perfect position, manual does NOT make it BU call; so why do think BU needs to make a blind call and go for help? A good PU will pick that call up with perfect position 100% of the time.

You are correct. However I can tell you that in two man NCAA I have been hung out to dry in this situation at least 5 times ( I will say that after the coaches evaluations I have not seen those people on the staff page at assignbyweb or another at arbiter so maybe they just retired )