Run Ahead Rule

[Steve M]

"But if a coach thinks they're going to waste my time, the scorekeeper's time and my UIC's time because they just don't like me or how I call my games, they've got another thing coming. "

Mike may remember the bozo I sent to him in a tournament. He didn't like a lot of things in that game - all mainly due to him bringing a recreational team to an A tournament AND that he had to improve to be a recreational level coach. Anyway, he threathened to speak to the uic about me - my response was OK, go do that now.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Steve M

"But if a coach thinks they're going to waste my time, the scorekeeper's time and my UIC's time because they just don't like me or how I call my games, they've got another thing coming. "

Mike may remember the bozo I sent to him in a tournament. He didn't like a lot of things in that game - all mainly due to him bringing a recreational team to an A tournament AND that he had to improve to be a recreational level coach. Anyway, he threathened to speak to the uic about me - my response was OK, go do that now.

Exactly. A lot of these coaches are blow-hards who love to toss out empty threats, thinking that we'll back down when they threaten to "tattle" on us.

I love their reactions when I don't.

When it comes to opinions about my umpiring, I only care about the ones from four people: my own, my assignor's, my State UIC's, and my tournament UIC's. We work in priorities, and those are mine.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Right here! This is the point where you should have ejected the manager. And I don't care the game was complete, you need to document this behavior and are not doing anyone any favors by not doing so.

I thought about reporting him as ejected as soon as I got to the table, but knew he'd be right back in the next game because there would be no penalty for being ejected during the tournament. Plus, the TD was an older guy who's been around the game ever since it was invented (or so it would seem) and was known for really reaming players out for abusing umpires. I think the threat of spending the rest of the tournament outside of the complex really hit the kid. Besides, the TD was also the state director so there would have been some potential for the kid to have more problems down the road.

Added note: we never had problems with the kid ever since, because he was told if he ever acted like that again, he'd be done in USSSA softball.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

I thought about reporting him as ejected as soon as I got to the table, but knew he'd be right back in the next game because there would be no penalty for being ejected during the tournament. Plus, the TD was an older guy who's been around the game ever since it was invented (or so it would seem) and was known for really reaming players out for abusing umpires. I think the threat of spending the rest of the tournament outside of the complex really hit the kid. Besides, the TD was also the state director so there would have been some potential for the kid to have more problems down the road.

Added note: we never had problems with the kid ever since, because he was told if he ever acted like that again, he'd be done in USSSA softball.

Gonna be awfully hard for him to be back in the next game if there are no umpires to work it.

Okay, maybe not that extreme, but there is more to it than just dumping him. It should show the others that such actions will not be tolerated.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

I thought about reporting him as ejected as soon as I got to the table, but knew he'd be right back in the next game because there would be no penalty for being ejected during the tournament. Plus, the TD was an older guy who's been around the game ever since it was invented (or so it would seem) and was known for really reaming players out for abusing umpires. I think the threat of spending the rest of the tournament outside of the complex really hit the kid. Besides, the TD was also the state director so there would have been some potential for the kid to have more problems down the road.

Added note: we never had problems with the kid ever since, because he was told if he ever acted like that again, he'd be done in USSSA softball.

I'm of the opinion that you just left a mess - potentially with every player and coach present - when you failed to eject someone who earned an ejection. That mess will get larger and will need to be cleaned up by another umpire at a future time - and maybe even in a situation a bit more escalated than your's was. Thanks - greatly appreciated.

Originally Posted by Steve M

Thanks - greatly appreciated.

Unnecessary comment. You apparently can't read, because I clarified that the state director was blunt with the kid that he would be done for if he did cause any more problems. Matter of fact, the state director ripped this kid so bad in front of all the other managers and players in the tournament that the kid knew he couldn't pull any more s**t. Besides, I wish those who are dumping this BS on me would carefully read my first posting about this sitch. I was walking off the field, with one foot out of the gate and the other heading through it. Do you think I was going to aggravate this little snot of a manager by turning around and ejecting him at that point? NO! Instead I decided to report his puny little butt to the TD/State Director and he handled it beautifully. At this point, I won't even bother with reading anyone else's post about my posting because you guys were not there and therefore can't speak for me. Thank you.

[NCASAUmp]

C'mon, guys... Don't break the cardinal rule of our brotherhood: don't second guess your partners. Ref Ump Welsch was the only one of us there, and he handled it the way he saw fit. End of story.

Moving on.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

At this point, I won't even bother with reading anyone else's post about my posting because you guys were not there and therefore can't speak for me. Thank you.

Good, then you will not read me agreeing with Steve on this one.

It wasn't the UIC or TD that this kid berated at the field in front of at least two teams, it was the on-site authority figure, the umpire.

I commend umpire's patience and poise and glad it worked out with this kid, but I believe our point is coming from another direction. Too many of us have run into situations where a player or team thinks their actions are acceptable especially away from their home fields. And when they act like that toward another umpire..........well, that is the mess to which Steve was referring.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Good, then you will not read me agreeing with Steve on this one.

It wasn't the UIC or TD that this kid berated at the field in front of at least two teams, it was the on-site authority figure, the umpire.

I commend umpire's patience and poise and glad it worked out with this kid, but I believe our point is coming from another direction. Too many of us have run into situations where a player or team thinks their actions are acceptable especially away from their home fields. And when they act like that toward another umpire..........well, that is the mess to which Steve was referring.

Well, then y'all can thank me for doing my part tonight. A fella told me that he loves his wife dearly, he missed her, and he wanted to get home early to see her bright, smiling face. Especially since it was pretty warm out there tonight, and he must have felt rather tired.

Actually, his exact words were that we are a "sorry bunch of umpires" who "need to go to some more umpire camps."

I granted his request and told him to say hi to her for me. Okay, not my exact words, but you get the point.

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Don't believe in "protest fees". This process is part of the game.

What a protest fee does is eliminate the useless protests when the managers are being idiots ( i know imagine that ) and protesting just to screw around or be vindictive. If the umpire is unsure of the rule they should be requesting a rule book and PREVENT a valid protest. The fee if the umpire is wrong is returned to the coach if the umpire is right they loose their "deposit"

[BretMan]

I'm no fan of protest fees.

Filing a protest is a right afforded to the teams under the playing rules. A protest serves a purpose- righting a wrong against an offended team that shouldn't have happened in the first place if the umpire knew the correct rule.

It just kind of rubs me the wrong way that a team should have to pay extra to get the service they've already paid for and are entitled to.

The argument is always made that charging a fee helps to eliminate invalid, frivilous or unfounded protests. But if the protest is not valid, wouldn't it be summarily dismissed? In that case, there is no need to reschedule the game from the point of the protest and no need to schedule umpires to cover the resumed game, thus no cost involved for the league or tournament in securing fields or paying umpires.

So why charge for it? It doesn't cost you anything if it's dismissed and if it's upheld you return the money anyway.

If the protest is frivilous, the coach filing it will learn a lesson. And, if it is not, the umpire who misapplied the rule will learn something, too! This strikes me as a "win/win" proposition. Why not just follow the protest procedure as outlined in the rule book, which makes no mention of charging a "protest fee"?

Or else, maybe would could take this a step further. Want to appeal that checked swing? It'll cost ya five bucks! Can I check with my partner? It'll cost ya a ten spot!

I've always wondered why anyone would assess a protest fee. I can see it in our city leagues, because there isn't a person or committee on site to decide the merits of a protest on the spot, so there's paperwork to be filled out and people to be called, etc. But in a tournament, I could never see the need for it. Just call the TD or the committee or whatever, and get it done and over with.