Run Ahead Rule

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by outathm

In any tournament I am UIC in I try to get the host to give the umpires the Protest fee if the team loses the protest. The team is usually or tacitly, questioning the umpire, not actually the rule.

This was the rule in a tourney I worked years ago when a protest on my field was not allowed. When I got back to the umpires room, everyone was talking about me buying the beer. I had no idea what they were talking about, but when the UIC gave me my half of the $500 cash protest fee I started to figure it out. The only problem was that I was 19 years old at the time, someone else had to go and buy the beer for me.

Don't believe in "protest fees". This process is part of the game.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Don't believe in "protest fees". This process is part of the game.

Maybe not in tourneys, but definitely in league play. Too many idiots out there believe that by filing a "protest," they're filing a complaint against the umpire. They just don't understand the process.

I had one "coach" attempt to protest my ejection of her husband. I had tossed him for USC (in the league's playoff finals), and she wanted to protest my judgment that his actions were unsportsmanlike. Basically, she just didn't like me (oh no!), and she just wanted to be a b1tch.

I told her to get back into the dugout and come back to me when she had something real to protest.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Maybe not in tourneys, but definitely in league play. Too many idiots out there believe that by filing a "protest," they're filing a complaint against the umpire. They just don't understand the process.

I had one "coach" attempt to protest my ejection of her husband. I had tossed him for USC (in the league's playoff finals), and she wanted to protest my judgment that his actions were unsportsmanlike. Basically, she just didn't like me (oh no!), and she just wanted to be a b1tch.

I told her to get back into the dugout and come back to me when she had something real to protest.

Okay, but so what? Let them go and complain however they please. Cannot file a protest if you will not accept it prior to continuing play.

Coach: Hey, are you the UIC?
UIC: Yes, sir. How can I help you?
Coach: I want to file a protest.
UIC: What game on what field?
Coach: We finished on Field #3 ten minutes ago.
UIC: You will have to file an eligibilty protest with the TD.
Coach: No, I want to file a protest against that umpire.
UIC: Did you announce your intentions at the time of the call?
Coach: Sure did!
UIC: How did the umpire respond?
Coach: He told me I couldn't protest because it did not involve the interpretation of a rule.
UIC: Well, that is true other than a player eligibility issue.
Coach: But he sucked! He threw out my player and coach.
UIC: Have a good day!

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Okay, but so what? Let them go and complain however they please. Cannot file a protest if you will not accept it prior to continuing play.

Coach: Hey, are you the UIC?
UIC: Yes, sir. How can I help you?
Coach: I want to file a protest.
UIC: What game on what field?
Coach: We finished on Field #3 ten minutes ago.
UIC: You will have to file an eligibilty protest with the TD.
Coach: No, I want to file a protest against that umpire.
UIC: Did you announce your intentions at the time of the call?
Coach: Sure did!
UIC: How did the umpire respond?
Coach: He told me I couldn't protest because it did not involve the interpretation of a rule.
UIC: Well, that is true other than a player eligibility issue.
Coach: But he sucked! He threw out my player and coach.
UIC: Have a good day!

Well, if we're talking league play and they have a complaint against me, I say, "fine, go right ahead. There's the field supervisor. I won't stop you." The coach usually responds, "oh, I will," but they never do.

Shaddup, coach.

If a coach has a legitimate beef with one of my rule interpretations, I more than welcome a protest. It's their right, and it's possible that I may have pooched a rule. It happens. But if a coach thinks they're going to waste my time, the scorekeeper's time and my UIC's time because they just don't like me or how I call my games, they've got another thing coming.

[wadeintothem]

Had a pretty good protest this weekend...

Before pregame Coach refuses to play because the pitchers dig a hole in the circle and he wanted the fields fixed so the pitchers couldnt dig a hole, before he would allow his team to play.

I know the TD fairly well and I was pretty sure how this protest was going to go, so I confirmed he wanted me to go get the TD to protest the field before start of play.

So I track down the TD and thus commenced a pretty one sided protest .. which consisted of the TD walking on the field and asking him in no uncertain terms if he was forfeiting "no I'm not forfeiting"
"Well its my understanding you are refusing to play so thats a forfeit"
stammer stammer..
So after a little berating, the TD has the ground crew push some dirt around and stomp around the pitchers plate, and he tells the coach to get the pregame done right now then to get his team on the field or he was done 7-0. He doesnt have his line up done so hes all dicked up fumbling around and rushing, I do my part in helping rush him.. and of course, since it was very hot, I was nice enough to make sure during the pregame that he really wanted to play and not forfeit - which unfortunately he had a change of heart so we played...

Had a manager try to protest a run-rule on me once, during a slow-pitch tournament. I called the game on the 15-run rule (this was before USSSA went to flip-flop) after his team gave up the runs that caused it (home team won it). Conversation went like this:

Manager: You have to give us an opportunity to make up the difference so we can play more.
Me: No, home team just made it a 15-run differential, therefore game is over.
Manager: You're a load of s**t, you're wrong! (at this point, I'm walking off the field as he's yapping in my ear)
Me: I'm heading over to the TD to report the score. You're more than welcome to talk to him about your concern.
Manager: CONCERN???? It's a f**king PROTEST!

By this point, we arrived at the picnic table that was serving as the TD's base during the tournament, and I reported the score. The manager starts yelling at the TD and the UIC that I was wrong for stopping the game when I did. Somewhere in that rant was the accusation that another umpire didn't stop the game when they had a 15-run lead and they ended up losing the game. After the manager rants for about 2 or 3 minutes, the TD and UIC looked at me and asked what I had. I said, home team took a 15-run lead in the bottom of the 3rd, game over. The TD and UIC asked the manager for his scorebook.

After about 5 minutes of reviewing, they had determined: 1) I was right in my game; and 2) the other umpire was right in his game. The situation was reversed in that game because the whining manager's team was actually the visiting team and the home team had yet to bat in the bottom of the 3rd. The TD sternly told the manager another load of crap like this would cause the manager to be watching the tournament from some other location than the complex itself. Kid didn't have another peep the rest of the tournament.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Manager: You're a load of s**t, you're wrong! (at this point, I'm walking off the field as he's yapping in my ear)

Right here! This is the point where you should have ejected the manager. And I don't care the game was complete, you need to document this behavior and are not doing anyone any favors by not doing so.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Don't believe in "protest fees". This process is part of the game.

In a perfect world, I agree with you.
On the other hand, in travel ball tournments (where I see protest fees), I see a funtion being served.
Believe it or not, I have run across more than one coach who would protest things rules with out any backing.
The fee is kind of a "put your money where you mouth is" and helps prevent wasting time (which seems to be the an issue with tournaments)
I've seen a wide range a fees charged - I would prefer the charge not to be ridiculous - but enough to make the coach think....

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Don't believe in "protest fees". This process is part of the game.

What a protest fee does is eliminate the useless protests when the managers are being idiots ( i know imagine that ) and protesting just to screw around or be vindictive. If the umpire is unsure of the rule they should be requesting a rule book and PREVENT a valid protest. The fee if the umpire is wrong is returned to the coach if the umpire is right they loose their "deposit"

[BretMan]

I'm no fan of protest fees.

Filing a protest is a right afforded to the teams under the playing rules. A protest serves a purpose- righting a wrong against an offended team that shouldn't have happened in the first place if the umpire knew the correct rule.

It just kind of rubs me the wrong way that a team should have to pay extra to get the service they've already paid for and are entitled to.

The argument is always made that charging a fee helps to eliminate invalid, frivilous or unfounded protests. But if the protest is not valid, wouldn't it be summarily dismissed? In that case, there is no need to reschedule the game from the point of the protest and no need to schedule umpires to cover the resumed game, thus no cost involved for the league or tournament in securing fields or paying umpires.

So why charge for it? It doesn't cost you anything if it's dismissed and if it's upheld you return the money anyway.

If the protest is frivilous, the coach filing it will learn a lesson. And, if it is not, the umpire who misapplied the rule will learn something, too! This strikes me as a "win/win" proposition. Why not just follow the protest procedure as outlined in the rule book, which makes no mention of charging a "protest fee"?

Or else, maybe would could take this a step further. Want to appeal that checked swing? It'll cost ya five bucks! Can I check with my partner? It'll cost ya a ten spot!

I've always wondered why anyone would assess a protest fee. I can see it in our city leagues, because there isn't a person or committee on site to decide the merits of a protest on the spot, so there's paperwork to be filled out and people to be called, etc. But in a tournament, I could never see the need for it. Just call the TD or the committee or whatever, and get it done and over with.