Illegal Sub -- NFHS

[argodad]

NFHS varsity game.

Home team coach substitutes a pinch-runner for his slow-moving F3 in the bottom of the 3rd. Starter re-enters to play defense in the top of the 4th. F3 walks in the bottom of the 6th and the coach pinch runs for her again.

As I sweep the pitching rubber before the top of the 7th, I see her come onto the field to play defense. I make eye contact with my partner, who also sees her. I go to the base line instead of the outfield and my partner says, "If he tries to re-enter her, I'll tell him he can't. If he doesn't say anything, I'm just going to see what happens."

Coach does not report her as re-entering. She doesn't make any plays on defense and does not come to bat in the bottom of the 7th, so we never got to see if the visiting coach was even aware of the illegal sub situation. (Both of these coaches fall toward the CLUELESS end of the softabll coaching acumen spectrum.)

Did we handle it the way you would have? Or should we have prevented the illegal sub when we saw it?

[Dakota]

In ASA, what you did would be correct, since the illegal player is handled as a protest by the offended team. In NFHS, however, the illegal player may be discovered by the umpire and the penalty enforced (NFHS 3-4-1).

[Thurman15]

Originally Posted by Dakota

In ASA, what you did would be correct, since the illegal player is handled as a protest by the offended team. In NFHS, however, the illegal player may be discovered by the umpire and the penalty enforced (NFHS 3-4-1).

What would that penalty be in NFHS?

[JEL]

Originally Posted by Thurman15

What would that penalty be in NFHS?

Restrict the offender to the bench.

If the IP HAD made a play, there are further penalties.


Don't know that as an Umpire I'm gonna catch any IP's on defense.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by JEL

Don't know that as an Umpire I'm gonna catch any IP's on defense.

Me either if they are unreported, but in this case, I gather the F3 was obvious and easy to recognize. I won't catch them on offense, either, if they are unreported.

I do like ASA's rule better, because I believe the onus needs to be on the other team to recognize the illegal player and protest.

Suppose, for example, I don't notice the illegal player until she IS involved in a play and the penalty nullifies a something important, like an out to prevent the tie run from scoring for the 3rd and final out of the game. If the offense remains clueless, should I then say "oh, gosh, I didn't notice her... sorry coach, the out is nullified. They get a do-over."

I think I'd be like the OP and "not notice."

[Dholloway1962]

I wouldn't have just let things go on. I like to use some "preventive umpiring" in these situations. If I see a coach letting a player come in illegally or unreported I go over near the coach and look at my lineup card and ask the coach if there is anything he needs to report. Hopefully he will make the change at that time. If it's illegal let him know and if he wants to go ahead and do it so be it. Coaches get caught up in the game and forget to report subs so nothing wrong with a little reminder. Remember if you let the unreported sub go in and the other team catches it you are going to penalize the player not the coach. Why penalize the player, and remove her from the game, because the coach is a bonehead??

[JEL]

Originally Posted by Dholloway1962

I wouldn't have just let things go on. I like to use some "preventive umpiring" in these situations. If I see a coach letting a player come in illegally or unreported I go over near the coach and look at my lineup card and ask the coach if there is anything he needs to report. Hopefully he will make the change at that time. If it's illegal let him know and if he wants to go ahead and do it so be it. Coaches get caught up in the game and forget to report subs so nothing wrong with a little reminder. Remember if you let the unreported sub go in and the other team catches it you are going to penalize the player not the coach. Why penalize the player, and remove her from the game, because the coach is a bonehead??

It's best not to try and "coach the coach!"

If he tries to enter an IP, or an inelligible CR I will say "coach, you can't do that," in other words, I won't accept an illegal sub. If the IP, or unreported sub enters, the oppossing team can now use that as an advantage. If I try and correct the coaching boo-boo, I will be removing that advantage!

Remember also in NFHS, there is a HUGE difference in the way an unreported sub, and an illegal sub is dealt with!

[Dholloway1962]

Originally Posted by JEL

It's best not to try and "coach the coach!"

If he tries to enter an IP, or an inelligible CR I will say "coach, you can't do that," in other words, I won't accept an illegal sub. If the IP, or unreported sub enters, the oppossing team can now use that as an advantage. If I try and correct the coaching boo-boo, I will be removing that advantage!

Remember also in NFHS, there is a HUGE difference in the way an unreported sub, and an illegal sub is dealt with!

But in your example are you not also "coaching the coach" by pointing out his mistake to him and not letting the other team take "advantage" of the illegal sub? Sounds like you are doing the same thing I would do just in a different way. Either way, I'm not going to let the situation (illegal/unreported sub) happen if at all possible!

[Dakota]

There is a difference between an unreported (legal or illegal) sub and a reported (legal or illegal) sub. The difference is, for the reported sub, I have to make a notation on my card. I'm not going to make an illegal notation on my card; I'll tell the coach he can't do that.

While what you suggested might be considered "coaching the coach", in NFHS, once I notice the illegal player, I'm not supposed to let the opposing team use it either; I'm just supposed to wait until the ball becomes live and enforce the penalty. So, I guess the mechanic would be "PLAY - TIME" and then go inform the coach.

As I said, I like ASA's rule on this better. The opposing team has to protest.

[CecilOne]

I'm glad to see that at least two of you won't allow reporting of an illegal sub.