good hitting pitchers?

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

ugh.. a national league "purist".

When are they going to get with the program?

I thought we weren't allowed to talk Baseball here, but since you brought it up...

I prefer no DH. (Maybe it's a sign of age)

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

I thought we weren't allowed to talk Baseball here, but since you brought it up...

I prefer no DH. (Maybe it's a sign of age)

Well, as far as my comments are concerned, it is a double violation... wrong sport for this forum, and commenting as a fan, not an umpire.

So sue me. Or ridicule me (wade). I don't care!

[tcblue13]

I used to feel the same way about the DH - the pitcher ought to bat.
I have changed my mind. I like it for several reasons. It adds offense to the game in that the #9 spot in the line up is not a bunt or a K and you can't walk the #8 hitter to get to the pitcher. Coaches are not forced into a decision to pinch hit for the pitcher in the middle of a game. Pitchers are protected from being a hit batsman. It prolongs the careers of good hitters who have lost a step in the field. And, while maybe not an issue at the MLB level, more players get to play.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

I used to feel the same way about the DH - the pitcher ought to bat.
I have changed my mind. I like it for several reasons. It adds offense to the game in that the #9 spot in the line up is not a bunt or a K and you can't walk the #8 hitter to get to the pitcher. Coaches are not forced into a decision to pinch hit for the pitcher in the middle of a game. Pitchers are protected from being a hit batsman. It prolongs the careers of good hitters who have lost a step in the field. And, while maybe not an issue at the MLB level, more players get to play.

And the reasons you stated are exactly why the DH needs to go away. It required strategy to know whether or not to leave your pitcher in to bat in a crucial situation. (Is he a good hitter? Can he bunt well, especially in cases calling for a sacrifice? Is he still pitching well enough? Who do I have available as a pinch hitter and sub?) Offense is not the be all end all of the game. (This is also true for hockey, and the changes they have made.) There is no reason to protect a pitcher from anything if he wants to play the game of baseball.

In this era of chicks "digging the long ball," we tend to forget that there have been some exceptional hitting pitchers throughout the ages. Hell...would you have DH-ed for Babe Ruth if you had been the Boston manager?

A player should be a contributer to all aspects of the game. If a guy is too old to play a position, he should retire. If a pitcher can't hit, then leave him in the minors until he develops a plate instinct. (Unless he is a truly exceptional pitcher, then deal with him offensively.) Ty Cobb played the game about as hard as anyone. He was 41 when he retired. No one knows how old Satchel Paige was when he finally retired, but it is certain that he was in his 50's at a minimum, and he played in a era of barnstorming with the Negro Leagues where he might pitch 2 or 3 games in a row, with no rest, and was sometimes expected to play another position on a night when he was "resting." His entire career in baseball predates the DH rule. I could go on and on, but I think you get the gist!

[Dakota]

It's the big leagues... I agree with Scott, with the added comment that the very idea that an AL pitcher can throw at a batter with impunity (from the other pitcher, anyway) offends the game, too.

[wadeintothem]

Well, for the record - I favor DH, pitchers not hitting, and performance enhancing products and breaking lame old school records.

I do not like the fact that the San Diego Chicken now whores himself willy nilly throughout the league though.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

I do not like the fact that the San Diego Chicken now whores himself willy nilly throughout the league though.

You should have jumped on those pimping rights, errrr, agent's rights when you had the chance!

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

Offense is not the be all end all of the game. (This is also true for hockey, and the changes they have made.)

So true, but a discussion on the No Hitting League would be WAY off topic, and would probably only involve two of us.

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

A player should be a contributer to all aspects of the game. If a guy is too old to play a position, he should retire. If a pitcher can't hit, then leave him in the minors until he develops a plate instinct. (Unless he is a truly exceptional pitcher, then deal with him offensively.) Ty Cobb played the game about as hard as anyone. He was 41 when he retired. No one knows how old Satchel Paige was when he finally retired, but it is certain that he was in his 50's at a minimum, and he played in a era of barnstorming with the Negro Leagues where he might pitch 2 or 3 games in a row, with no rest, and was sometimes expected to play another position on a night when he was "resting." His entire career in baseball predates the DH rule. I could go on and on, but I think you get the gist!

(claps slowly)

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Dakota

(snip) it is a double violation... wrong sport for this forum, and commenting as a fan, not an umpire.

(snip)

Good point... I learn so much here.

[bkbjones]

Ahem. The historian inside me clears throat.

In the early years of the American League, including after the AL and NL made peace, the idea of the DH was floated around especially by Connie Mack.

Throughout the 1920s John Heydler promoted the DH -- supposedly a rule much more similar to our DP/Flex than the DH rule -- because the chicks were digging the long ball, which was much more confined to the AL. Not to say there weren't some power hitters in the NL, but there were many more in the AL. Even into the 30s, having two power hitters on a team a la Ruth and Gehrig was something of a novelty, so we're not talking about big bashers.

Considering there were only about 200 players active in a given year in the 1920s...and owners were much more tightwads back then, I'm relatively certain they just flat didn't want to have to pay someone just to hit. (For penurious owners, see Charles Comiskey, the Phillies, the Braves, et al.) These were the days when teams began more and more to develop a pitching staff with specialists like Firpo Marberry setting the stage for more pure relief pitchers, and if they were going to have someone specialize in something just like today they'd rather risk a buck on pitching rather than hitting.