Drawing the OBS call

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

The other thread got me thinking about something we are seeing more and more. In our area the following is very common place now and I'm wondering if you are seeing a rise in it as well.

A runner rounding first or third will accidently on purpose make contact with a fielder who isnt paying attention and stanidng on the bag (but not making a play).. and thus draw the OBS call, then when the coach sees the signal - he sends the runner aware that they are then protected to 2. If you dont make the signal, you are going to get a talking to by the coach. He wants his obs called or you will hear it. It is very obviously a coached tactic. Its not even really hidden, its known and us umps know it as well.

Another thing I'm seeing more and more are comments to their runners during run downs "get me Obstruction, get me a fielder"

Anyone else seeing this very active and overt attempts at drawing the OBS call?

I have seen it countless times this year (especially at 1B). I couldnt even begin to guess how many times.

My response is to the phrase in red. That is always obstruction and the penalty is one more base. There is one, and only one reason for the infielder to stand on the base like that: To prevent the runner from going no farther than the base on which the infielder is standing. The infielder is not obstructing the runner from the base on which the infielder is standing but the next succeeding base.

MTD, Sr.

[Centerfield9]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

My response is to the phrase in red. That is always obstruction and the penalty is one more base. There is one, and only one reason for the infielder to stand on the base like that: To prevent the runner from going no farther than the base on which the infielder is standing. The infielder is not obstructing the runner from the base on which the infielder is standing but the next succeeding base.

MTD, Sr.

I agree. F3 knows the BR is coming. On every batted ball hit fair, F3 needs to deal with the BR, so standing there on 1B is deliberate. "Daydreaming" will draw the OBS call every time in my book.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

My response is to the phrase in red. That is always obstruction and the penalty is one more base. There is one, and only one reason for the infielder to stand on the base like that: To prevent the runner from going no farther than the base on which the infielder is standing. The infielder is not obstructing the runner from the base on which the infielder is standing but the next succeeding base.

MTD, Sr.

As another poster might ask, "citation please"?

Are you assuming in every case that the runner would have made the next base? There may be an argument for intent or ignorance. Since I do a lot of younger players' games I see obstruction at 1B fairly frequently. In most cases the runner would never have a chance at 2B. If it's blatant, I'll throw the arm out and make a call. It usually requires an explanation to coach/player as to what I was calling.

In travel team play or HS games, I will make the call but rarely is an "extra" base awarded.

Ted

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

As another poster might ask, "citation please"?

Are you assuming in every case that the runner would have made the next base? There may be an argument for intent or ignorance. Since I do a lot of younger players' games I see obstruction at 1B fairly frequently. In most cases the runner would never have a chance at 2B. If it's blatant, I'll throw the arm out and make a call. It usually requires an explanation to coach/player as to what I was calling.

In travel team play or HS games, I will make the call but rarely is an "extra" base awarded.

Ted

If the infielder is not trying prevent the runner from going on to the next base, then what is the infielder doing? Standing on the base (and this happens at second and third base far more than it does at first) DOES NOT prevent the runner from acquiring that base BUT obstructs the runner from going to the next base. Obstruction is obstruction and should be penalized.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. The real problem is not the coaching of the runner to make contact with the infielder but the coaching of the infielder to obstruct by standing on the base.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

If the infielder is not trying prevent the runner from going on to the next base, then what is the infielder doing? Standing on the base (and this happens at second and third base far more than it does at first) DOES NOT prevent the runner from acquiring that base BUT obstructs the runner from going to the next base. Obstruction is obstruction and should be penalized.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. The real problem is not the coaching of the runner to make contact with the infielder but the coaching of the infielder to obstruct by standing on the base.

There is no punitive punishment for OBS in this sport. I think you must be thinking of another sport. Just do your job and enforce the rules as written - nothing more, nothing less.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

There is no punitive punishment for OBS in this sport. I think you must be thinking of another sport. Just do your job and enforce the rules as written - nothing more, nothing less.

Nor in the other sport. In this type of obstruction, OBR says use your judgement and make whatever award is needed to nullify the obstruction. In OBR games I've let runners stay at first if that's where they were stopping and I once gave a batter 3B on a ball that was in the gap and rolled to the wall.

I'm with Wade. Lots of characters have really been crawling out of the woodwork lately.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by SethPDX

Nor in the other sport. In this type of obstruction, OBR says use your judgement and make whatever award is needed to nullify the obstruction. In OBR games I've let runners stay at first if that's where they were stopping and I once gave a batter 3B on a ball that was in the gap and rolled to the wall.

I'm with Wade. Lots of characters have really been crawling out of the woodwork lately.

Ah but in Fed Baseball, an obstructed runner is always awarded another base.

[SethPDX]

I didn't know that. That would be another big difference in Fed baseball rules, then (all I know is OBR).

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

There is no punitive punishment for OBS in this sport. I think you must be thinking of another sport. Just do your job and enforce the rules as written - nothing more, nothing less.

Thank you for pointing that out. I've tried to point that out many times.
Award the bases runner - would have attained had there been no obstruction.

That is a penalty, that is righting a wrong.


Of course there are exceptions, such as NCAA after a warning......

[reccer]

[QUOTE= The real problem is not the coaching of the runner to make contact with the infielder but the coaching of the infielder to obstruct by standing on the base.[/QUOTE]


Not just standing on the base, Blue, standing within 2 feet of that coveted corner.

Wade each of you have your punitive hot button issues. Irish's is the silly first third play where offense pushes limit of the LBR, (except when his DD is the catcher) He counts out "one mississ..." then BAM.

Blue I had last summer made a punitive call on the coaches bucket interference play "I warned you at the plate meeting about coaches buckets....."

I applaud MTD for recognizing the sneakativity of the defense.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

My response is to the phrase in red. That is always obstruction and the penalty is one more base. There is one, and only one reason for the infielder to stand on the base like that: To prevent the runner from going no farther than the base on which the infielder is standing. The infielder is not obstructing the runner from the base on which the infielder is standing but the next succeeding base.

MTD, Sr.

Not in this sport.

[reccer]

I generally agree with MTD's granting one base penalty, even making it 2 bases if the ball reaches the wall, but might back off this "award" if its a one hop bullet directly at an outfielder.

The decision at first should be an easy one for you. The inside corner of the bag belongs to the runner, and good preventive umpiring makes sure this is so without the offense having to do your job for you.

In my 20 years of playing men's slow pitch. We never had this problem for obvious reasons.

As an aside, I wonder if your view of obstruction is tempered by what type of player you were? If you were slow, and generally only advanced one base at a time, it didn't matter whether you caught the corner as you weren't going any further anyway. To us (former) burners, it makes a huge difference.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by reccer

I generally agree with MTD's granting one base penalty, even making it 2 bases if the ball reaches the wall, but might back off this "award" if its a one hop bullet directly at an outfielder.

The decision at first should be an easy one for you. The inside corner of the bag belongs to the runner, and good preventive umpiring makes sure this is so without the offense having to do your job for you.

In my 20 years of playing men's slow pitch. We never had this problem for obvious reasons.

As an aside, I wonder if your view of obstruction is tempered by what type of player you were? If you were slow, and generally only advanced one base at a time, it didn't matter whether you caught the corner as you weren't going any further anyway. To us (former) burners, it makes a huge difference.

Are we having a rules discussion on this forum or what?

We got fan threads and bs opinion...
but no rules. Where are you guys getting this crap? DH whining!! Raining cats and dogs... end of times reports..

Is it to much to ask that we stick to rules of at least the major governing bodies of this particular sport?

[vcblue]

The bottom line is the runner is entitled to the inside corner of the bag and if the field does not have the ball (ASA) she is obstructing the runner. This is not an atomic plus one ruling (ASA). She gets the base that the umpire judged she would get if no obstruction occurred.
In So Cal this has been common place for at least 5 years. Yes the coaches are looking to see if obstruction was called, and if it was they have the runner continue on to the next base. I have awarded as many the original base as I have awarded the next base.

[marvin]

Originally Posted by vcblue

The bottom line is the runner is entitled to the inside corner of the bag

Isn't the runner entitled to whatever part of the base that they wish to use?

This is the second post in this thread where the phrase "entitled to the inside corner of the bag" was used. It is not up to the defense which part of the base the runner uses.