drawing the line

[Little Jimmy]

High school regional final today. I'm on the plate. 1st inning. Visiting team batter sets up toward the front of the box and strides out with her heel touching the line with each swing. After inning is over, home team coach questions (politely) the position of the batters foot. I say "she's close, but not quite out". He seems to accept it and we move on.

3rd inning. Same batter comes up. Same situation but now there's very little box left. She may be close but I'm not calling that one unless I'm positive. Coach (and home team fans) are now much more adament. Batter is still stepping in the same place as before. Still no call from me. After batter hits a double (with me being the bad guy of course) the next batter comes up. "Blue, where's the box so I don't step out?" I say "can't you see it?"(there's a whisp of white still on the ground). "Will you draw me a line?"the batter says. With a smile on my face I say "you don't need one" and set up behind the plate. She drew her own line, which was probably 2-3 inches short of the barely visable reminant of a box. Game continues with no real problems. Later in the game, the original "problem" batter comes back up and steps in an area where there is simply no box left. In my judgement, she's in the same place as always so no out of the box call. Home coach still complains. Game eventually ends.

My concern is with the request to "draw a line" for the one batter. There have been times where I have done this but in this case I thought I might be opening a can of worms where the home coach would be requesting a drawn line every time the "questionable" batter came up. What's your opinion about redrawing the box when there's not really a box there anymore?

[3afan]

you are not a groundskeeper - don't do it

IMO

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

She drew her own line, which was probably 2-3 inches short of the barely visable reminant of a box.

Knowing that the line she drew was incorrect, when she completed her at bat I would have discretely removed her line.

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

What's your opinion about redrawing the box when there's not really a box there anymore?

As 2fan noted, don't do it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

High school regional final today. I'm on the plate. 1st inning. Visiting team batter sets up toward the front of the box and strides out with her heel touching the line with each swing. After inning is over, home team coach questions (politely) the position of the batters foot. I say "she's close, but not quite out". He seems to accept it and we move on.

3rd inning. Same batter comes up. Same situation but now there's very little box left. She may be close but I'm not calling that one unless I'm positive. Coach (and home team fans) are now much more adament. Batter is still stepping in the same place as before. Still no call from me. After batter hits a double (with me being the bad guy of course) the next batter comes up. "Blue, where's the box so I don't step out?" I say "can't you see it?"(there's a whisp of white still on the ground). "Will you draw me a line?"the batter says. With a smile on my face I say "you don't need one" and set up behind the plate. She drew her own line, which was probably 2-3 inches short of the barely visable reminant of a box. Game continues with no real problems. Later in the game, the original "problem" batter comes back up and steps in an area where there is simply no box left. In my judgement, she's in the same place as always so no out of the box call. Home coach still complains. Game eventually ends.

My concern is with the request to "draw a line" for the one batter. There have been times where I have done this but in this case I thought I might be opening a can of worms where the home coach would be requesting a drawn line every time the "questionable" batter came up. What's your opinion about redrawing the box when there's not really a box there anymore?

That isn't correct. The box IS there, has been the entire game. It is just that the chalk/paint that was used has been erased. It is as much the coaches' and players' responsibility to know where it is as the umpire's. If the coach has a problem with it, he needs to make arrangements to have the field redressed sometime during a break in the game.

[NCASAUmp]

I won't draw a line, but if the batter is not set up within the box, I'll let them know they should move up, in, or out.

As for calling them for being out of the box on contact, I won't call it unless it's obvious. If there are correct lines, great, it makes my job easier, and I'll ring 'em for it. If not, then it's up to the umpire to be reasonable with the application of the rule.

A number of years ago, I used to maintain the fields before the games for a summer (GREAT summer job for a college kid - drinking Cokes, sitting on a tractor, playing in dirt and getting a great tan). I learned that the outside corners of the ASA boxes stretch out into fair territory by a few inches.

One of the fields where I call now has had the incorrect box laid out for the last 6 years or so. It looks to be 2 and 1/2 feet by 6 feet, and the boxes here seem to stop at or a little short of the foul line. As such, I'll give a little leniency towards a batter if their foot looks to be close.

[bkbjones]

If I have the pleasure of, say, being your tournament or site UIC or partner some day...and anyone draws a line with a bat, there will/would be hell to pay. Mike summed it up in two heartbeats: the line is there whether there is chalk or not, and it's up to the players/coaches to know where the line is. I know where it is, and if the coach gets $hitty about it, right before I toss him I will tell him it's where I say it is, go sit down and let's play ball.

As for the fans...well, show me a smart fan, and I will show you some oceanfront property in AZ. Only smart fans I know of are about 90% of us on this forum who might be watching a game between games.

The rest are likely practicing their double fist pumps out in the car.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

One of the fields where I call now has had the incorrect box laid out for the last 6 years or so. It looks to be 2 and 1/2 feet by 6 feet, and the boxes here seem to stop at or a little short of the foul line. As such, I'll give a little leniency towards a batter if their foot looks to be close.

On fields with an incorrectly drawn batter's box (i.e. drawn "backwards" with 4 feet to the rear, or drawn using a baseball template, etc.) I will erase the lines myself and inform the coaches why. I won't redraw them, but I will erase them if they are incorrect - especially on a HS field where it is an infraction for the players themselves to intentionally erase the lines.

[greymule]

In half the games I do, the lines are drawn incorrectly (including college games, believe it or not). I don't actually draw new lines, but I might scratch some sort of line in the dirt to mark the front and back of the box. Those lines are quickly gone, but I've never had a problem after that.

I don't see what the big deal is about doing this, or about marking the back line if the batter asks. In fact, it actually reduces problems, since there's no clear line for a coach to make an issue about.

[Skahtboi]

Me? I am lazy I guess. When the lines aren't drawn correctly, I don't mark them out, nor do I draw any sort of indicator line. I just let the coaches know that the boxes are drawn incorrectly, and subsequently I will be judging not by the physical lines but where the physical lines SHOULD be.

[shipwreck]

Scott, do you do the same thing if the line drawn to the foul pole is off a little? I have seen almost every field I have ever worked, have a little variation on this line. It is very hard to be 100% accurate. I will still call the chalk or painted line unless it is blatantly off. Dave

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

Scott, do you do the same thing if the line drawn to the foul pole is off a little? I have seen almost every field I have ever worked, have a little variation on this line. It is very hard to be 100% accurate. I will still call the chalk or painted line unless it is blatantly off. Dave

Apples and oranges.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

Scott, do you do the same thing if the line drawn to the foul pole is off a little? I have seen almost every field I have ever worked, have a little variation on this line. It is very hard to be 100% accurate. I will still call the chalk or painted line unless it is blatantly off. Dave

Apples and oranges.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

Scott, do you do the same thing if the line drawn to the foul pole is off a little? I have seen almost every field I have ever worked, have a little variation on this line. It is very hard to be 100% accurate. I will still call the chalk or painted line unless it is blatantly off. Dave

During that summer I mentioned earlier, that's when I would redo the field so it WOULD be correct.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

If I have the pleasure of, say, being your tournament or site UIC or partner some day...and anyone draws a line with a bat, there will/would be hell to pay. Mike summed it up in two heartbeats: the line is there whether there is chalk or not, and it's up to the players/coaches to know where the line is. I know where it is, and if the coach gets $hitty about it, right before I toss him I will tell him it's where I say it is, go sit down and let's play ball.

As for the fans...well, show me a smart fan, and I will show you some oceanfront property in AZ. Only smart fans I know of are about 90% of us on this forum who might be watching a game between games.

The rest are likely practicing their double fist pumps out in the car.

John,
We're going to differ a bit about these "lines". Should a batter draw a line indicating where a pitch was that I called a strike, we're going to see a warning, an ejection, or an F-You call - depending on the level. Much like what I think I read your response to be.
In this case, the batter drew a line for her limit - and that was noticably INSIDE the batter's box line - I have no problem at all with this. I've seen a couple of pretty good players who do just this - slappers who are marking where they want their feet to go or something like that.

Edited to fix some fat fingers that this afternoon's & this evening's wine helped create.

[shipwreck]

Maybe a golden delicious to a red delicious but not apples to oranges. If a foul line is way off, why couldn't you let the coaches know, and that you would be calling the ACTUAL line not the marked out one, just like a missed marked batter's box? Dave