Get some help, Blue!

[Andy]

I don't do this very often, but Friday and Saturday's HS games drove me to it.

Rant on:

Why do coaches feel it is their right to ask an umpire to get "help" on any call they disagree with?

Friday game: R1 on third, R2 on second, no outs. I'm BU in C position. Ball is hit to F4, R1 takes off from third, F4 throws home, R1 sees that she will not make it and turns back for third, R2 has seen R1 head for home so she runs for third. F2 throws to F5 covering third, but R1 dives in before the tag, I have stepped in to a nice 90 degree position to see the play and come up with a big SAFE call. F5 now sees R2 running back to second and throws to second, I bust my butt back toward second and angle toward toward the outfield to try to get some type of look at the play, but the ball is overthrown and heads into the outfield. R1 scores and R2 advances to third. The defensive coach asks me from the dugout, "we have an out at third, right, Blue?" I respond "No, coach, she was safe."

Coach calls time and heads for my partner at the plate. After speaking with him, he starts out for me, I have returned back to my position behind F6 for the next batter. Coach tells me, "I know that you were out here pretty deep and may not have seen that play at third, can you ask your partner for help, he had a better angle". I reply that it was my call, I saw the play, I don't need any help, call stands. I get the usual crap about, I'm asking politely, why won't you at least talk to him, don't be so arrogant, blah, blah, blah.....

I find out later that he told my partner when he went to him first: "I'm going out there to ask him to come to you for help, but I wanted to set it up with you first so you have my back when he comes to you."

Saturday game: I'm BU again. Team A R1 on first, attempts to steal second, dives head first into second, F5 takes throw and gets tag on runner just before her hand hits the base, I sell the out. Some expected grumbling from Team A as it was a close play. Next inning, Team B R1 on first, takes off for second, dives in, but gets hand to base just before the tag. Big sell safe call. Here comes Team A coach - "Blue, can you ask your partner for help on that? Last inning on the same play you called my runner out but this runner was safe" I tell her that I wasn't getting help, call stands. Later in the game on a banger at first that I called a team B runner safe, Team A coach comes out again asking me to get help. I ask her why she wants me to go for help. She says, "Because that runner was out!" I tell her that just because she disagrees with my call is not a valid reason to ask me to go to my partner. Her response, "It's not that I disagree with your call, I just think you missed it!" ARGGGGGGGHHHHH!

I have no problem going to my partner if asked properly and there is a valid reason, but this just drives me crazy!

Rant off.

[Dukat]

Since this is a Rant post about coaches I will throw out the one from this last weekend...

I am in A and PU asks me for a check swing call. I give big Hammer and say "Yes, She Went"

Pretty Simple huh?

Coach starts asking me about the head of the bat, exactly how far did the bat come etc...

I told him, Coach, In my judgment she made an attempt.

He brings walks away and comes back out with a bat and asks me to show him exactly what I saw!

I told him, Coach, I am not here to give you a coaching clinic and In my judgment she made an attempt. Let's Play Ball! - Fortunately for him he walked away and continued the game.

(This was High School Playoffs - Last round before State)

[LIIRISHMAN]

Originally Posted by Dukat

Since this is a Rant post about coaches I will throw out the one from this last weekend...

I am in A and PU asks me for a check swing call. I give big Hammer and say "Yes, She Went"

Pretty Simple huh?

Coach starts asking me about the head of the bat, exactly how far did the bat come etc...

I told him, Coach, In my judgment she made an attempt.

He brings walks away and comes back out with a bat and asks me to show him exactly what I saw!

I told him, Coach, I am not here to give you a coaching clinic and In my judgment she made an attempt. Let's Play Ball! - Fortunately for him he walked away and continued the game.

(This was High School Playoffs - Last round before State)

You had the patience of Job on this situation. Once the Coach had come back to you with the bat for a "demonstration" I would have demonstrated the proper ejection of a coach trying to show up an umpire.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dukat

He brings walks away and comes back out with a bat and asks me to show him exactly what I saw!

Not me. A coach comes out of the dugout toward me with a bat, I'm taking a defensive position starting with an ejection.

There is absolutely no reason for an adult at a HS game to exit the dugout with a bat that is not going directly to a batter. Maybe Earl Weaver thought he was auditioning for a job. All I can say is that I hope the school district has an HR guy/gal on the bus.

[Dukat]

The way it sounds does seem threatening but I never felt threatened and on high school games and especially in the playoffs I do tend to have more patience with them. (Our association fines an ejected coach)

If he would have continued in any way after I told him Play Ball then I would have restricted him to the dugout and then if he continued I would have ejected.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dukat

The way it sounds does seem threatening but I never felt threatened and on high school games and especially in the playoffs I do tend to have more patience with them. (Our association fines an ejected coach)

If he would have continued in any way after I told him Play Ball then I would have restricted him to the dugout and then if he continued I would have ejected.

There can be absolutely nothing positive that can come out of a meeting with a coach holding a bat in the middle of a field.

Normally, and definitely in the past, I agree that patience (and a good laugh) would probably be my reaction. However, in today's world, I'm not waiting to find out what this idiot intends to do with this bat.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by Andy

Why do coaches feel it is their right to ask an umpire to get "help" on any call they disagree with?

Because they have a role as coach to advocate for their team.

Originally Posted by Andy

Coach tells me, "I know that you were out here pretty deep and may not have seen that play at third, can you ask your partner for help, he had a better angle". I reply that it was my call, I saw the play, I don't need any help, call stands.

My reply: Coach, I clearly saw the hand on the bag before the tag was made. Let's play ball.

Originally Posted by Andy

I get the usual crap about, I'm asking politely, why won't you at least talk to him, don't be so arrogant, blah, blah, blah.....

That's enough, coach.

Originally Posted by Andy

Saturday game: I'm BU again. Team A R1 on first, attempts to steal second, dives head first into second, F5 takes throw and gets tag on runner just before her hand hits the base, I sell the out. Some expected grumbling from Team A as it was a close play. Next inning, Team B R1 on first, takes off for second, dives in, but gets hand to base just before the tag. Big sell safe call. Here comes Team A coach - "Blue, can you ask your partner for help on that? Last inning on the same play you called my runner out but this runner was safe" I tell her that I wasn't getting help, call stands.

Coach, that play last inning is over. On this play, I clearly saw the tag before the runner got there. Waht would you have me ask my partner for help on?

[Dutch Alex]

ISF Rule10, sec. 6:
Ther shall be noappeal from any decision of any umpire, on grounds that he ws not correct in his conclusion wether a batted ball was fair or foul, a runner safe or out, a pitched ball a strike or a ball, or any play involving accuracy of judgment. ...etc...

Last saturday, i'm BU in the 1st game of a DH. Visting Coach comes out twice in that game to argue with my partner over strikes and balls. I don't do a thing, just look agry to the man...
In game 2, when i'm PU, my partner has a banger on first. He's in a good angly, on the right distance. So i think he's right in his call, why shouldn't he be? The same coach comes out and starts to walk into the diamond. He's really surpised that I didn't allow him to ask my partner why he made that call... Never let them argue a judgment-call!!!

I'm pretty sure, that whatever your ruleset may be, a simmelair rule like ISF10.6 is present...

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Dukat

Since this is a Rant post about coaches I will throw out the one from this last weekend...

I am in A and PU asks me for a check swing call. I give big Hammer and say "Yes, She Went"

Pretty Simple huh?

Coach starts asking me about the head of the bat, exactly how far did the bat come etc...

I told him, Coach, In my judgment she made an attempt.

He brings walks away and comes back out with a bat and asks me to show him exactly what I saw!

I told him, Coach, I am not here to give you a coaching clinic and In my judgment she made an attempt. Let's Play Ball! - Fortunately for him he walked away and continued the game.

(This was High School Playoffs - Last round before State)

I had a partner on Friday that when I asked if a batter went, he gave me a safe signal and said "yes." I had to meet with him to see what, exactly, he meant. He said she had offered at the pitch. I told him that call is normally accompanied by a hammer! (This is no rookie, either. He has more years in this than I do.)

[BuggBob]

"Can you get help on that blue?" is coach speak for "You dumb frigging idiot galoot, you just cost my team the world series."

Whenever a coach asks me to "get help", I always tell them no thanks, I already have a counselor.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

"Can you get help on that blue?" is coach speak for "You dumb frigging idiot galoot, you just cost my team the world series."

I thought the latest version of this joke was that we cost them scholarships...

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Dukat

Since this is a Rant post about coaches I will throw out the one from this last weekend...

I am in A and PU asks me for a check swing call. I give big Hammer and say "Yes, She Went"

Pretty Simple huh?

Coach starts asking me about the head of the bat, exactly how far did the bat come etc...

I told him, Coach, In my judgment she made an attempt.

He brings walks away and comes back out with a bat and asks me to show him exactly what I saw!

I told him, Coach, I am not here to give you a coaching clinic and In my judgment she made an attempt. Let's Play Ball! - Fortunately for him he walked away and continued the game.

(This was High School Playoffs - Last round before State)

Coming out of the dugout with a bat is automatic. Plain and simple. I think that should be reflected on in terms of a self-review of your job performance. I'm not even thinking in terms of a weapon.. which obviously in this case there is the added intimidation value - it is the same as coming out with a rule book, drawing a picture on the field, or any other overly animated method of showing you up.

He showed you up and he got away with it. The second he came out like that, you should have ejected him and walked away. That was a ham and eggs call, breakfast, a no brainer. EVERYONE who saw it, including that coach knew he should be gone.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by Dukat

The way it sounds does seem threatening but I never felt threatened and on high school games and especially in the playoffs I do tend to have more patience with them. (Our association fines an ejected coach)

If he would have continued in any way after I told him Play Ball then I would have restricted him to the dugout and then if he continued I would have ejected.

This is more than an automatic ejection. Letting him get by with this, is a no brainer of epic proportions.
He has shown you up
It's unsportsmanlike
He's questioning balls and strikes

No ejecting him just helps throw the next crew under the bus. I can already hear it: "Gosh, you're ejecting me for THAT? I did a lot more with the last guy! I even took a bat out on to the field and he wouldn't run me, and now you're telling me..."

[bniu]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

This is more than an automatic ejection. Letting him get by with this, is a no brainer of epic proportions.
He has shown you up
It's unsportsmanlike
He's questioning balls and strikes

No ejecting him just helps throw the next crew under the bus. I can already hear it: "Gosh, you're ejecting me for THAT? I did a lot more with the last guy! I even took a bat out on to the field and he wouldn't run me, and now you're telling me..."

There are 4 kinds of umpires:

First kind will say they have a gun

Second kind will say they have a gun and show the gun

Third kind will say it, show it, and point it

Fourth kind will say it, show it, point it, and pull the trigger!

I've come really close to ejecting a few coaches but I just couldn't pull the trigger (resolution for next year: pull the trigger).

Once the runner slid in safe at home and the defensive coach just ran up and screamed at me about it, thinking back to it, I should've said scarcastically and loud enough so the offensive coach could hear it too, "You know what? You've just convinced me that there was indeed an out on the play!!!" pause to let the offensive coach get a bit edgy and then continue saying to the defensive coach, "You're the one who's out on the play!!!" and summarily eject the defensive coach.

Later that same defensive coach (they're at bat now) argues my balls and strikes and I called a strike on a pitch that clipped the lower front side of the zone and then just sunk down into the dirt and she's screaming at me, I ripped off my mask and chastised her for acting like a 3 year old out loud, and she should've been ejected but I didn't want to cause her team (14 year olds) to forfeit the game if I threw her out so I let her stay in, it did get her to shut her trap for the rest of the game though I later found out that they could just get a parent in to coach the rest of the game.

I'm thinking, next time a coach pulls that **** on me, i'll say: "Look, adults are in this game to be role models to kids, so why don't you learn something from your players?" (her players, all young teenagers behaved like they were at church) or I'll go criticize her in game decisions and tell her that her strategy was the dumbest strategy i've ever seen and when she tells me to stop, i'll say: "Hey, this is FUN!!! No wonder why you like to heckle so much!!!" and then eject her.

I don't want to let them walk all over me and I'm not afraid of tossing a lit match into a pool of gasoline and I figured, heck, i've already lost some control of this game by letting her yell at me, might as well have some fun with it...

If this were an adult league, I think some F--- You Calls are in order...