How would you deal with this coach?

[kfrisbee]

NSA, 14U B tournament. Everyone is learning; players, coaches, umpires.

Top of the first, I am OC and notice that the pitcher takes her signal with the ball and her hand in her glove, never seperates her hands, pitches.

I call time and aproach PU asking if the pitcher should be presenting the ball and he said "No, not in NSA". I shake my head and return to my box. I didn't say anything, but probably looked a bit disgruntled.

Top of the second, while Pitcher is warming up, PU and BU both have a talk with the pitcher and DC. From this point on the pitcher takes her signal with hands seperated and the ball in throwing hand. PU obviousely learned something between innings and let the pitcher and her coach know what it was. No word to me at all so I think I am correct.

That night I look at rules to learn that ball does not need to be presented but hands must be seperated before the pitch, so PU is technically correct. I am OK with that. Yay, I learned something new today!!!

My question to you is, would you have handled this the same way? ...or would you have also communicated the correct ruling to me?

As always, I appreciate your honest responses.

[Skahtboi]

Always try to communicate the correct ruling, where applicable. (In other words, if I am going to tip a coach off to something they may or may not have already known that is advantageous to them in the game, then I am likely to say less.)

I don't know of any rule set that calls for a pitcher to "present" the ball. That is another of those lingering myths that actually was based in rule, I believe, many years ago. Most rule sets state the pitcher must take the pitching plate with the hands apart, the ball may be in either the glove or the hand, and pause to take a signal or simulate taking a signal. The hands must then come together for 1 second and not longer than 10 seconds (in most rule sets). The pitch begins once the hands separate.

[LIIRISHMAN]

As long as you asked your question in a respectful manner I would have no problem answering your question.Especially at this level where the players and coach might be newbies.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by kfrisbee

NSA, 14U B tournament. Everyone is learning; players, coaches,

Probably why the umpire did not call this right away. But, why do you assume the umpires are learning?

Originally Posted by kfrisbee

I call time and aproach PU asking if the pitcher should be presenting the ball and he said "No, not in NSA". I shake my head and return to my box. I didn't say anything, but probably looked a bit disgruntled.

He gave you the correct answer. If you are going to point out a rule violation to the umpire, it is very helpful (to your cause) for you to also know the rule.

Originally Posted by kfrisbee

Top of the second, while Pitcher is warming up, PU and BU both have a talk with the pitcher and DC. From this point on the pitcher takes her signal with hands seperated and the ball in throwing hand. PU obviousely learned something between innings and let the pitcher and her coach know what it was. No word to me at all so I think I am correct.

I seriously doubt the umpire learned anything new. I suspect he intended to have this discussion all along. You weren't correct, as you discovered.

Originally Posted by kfrisbee

My question to you is, would you have handled this the same way? ...or would you have also communicated the correct ruling to me?

As always, I appreciate your honest responses.

Probably, assuming that this was an early-season B-level tournament where the umpires had been instructed to speak to coaches about such rule violations and give the players a chance to adjust - which is very common for this level of play.

[FullCount]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

I don't know of any rule set that calls for a pitcher to "present" the ball. That is another of those lingering myths that actually was based in rule, I believe, many years ago. Most rule sets state the pitcher must take the pitching plate with the hands apart, the ball may be in either the glove or the hand, and pause to take a signal or simulate taking a signal. The hands must then come together for 1 second and not longer than 10 seconds (in most rule sets). The pitch begins once the hands separate.

Had a game two weeks ago in which a HS varsity coach kept insisting to me that the Fed rules require the pitcher to present the ball. Between innings I told him pretty much what you state: not required, "present" doesn't appear in the rules, and that this seems to be a lingering myth. His answer- in their previous game, played earlier the same day but on a different field and against a different opponent, they had IPs called on their pitcher for not presenting the ball. Could be another case of some umpires not really knowing the rules but more likely it's the coach since he clearly didn't know the rules.

[wadeintothem]

For an NSA 14U B tourney..

I would have been nice enough to tell you you were wrong right from the begining and made you go away.

At some point, probably not immediately, I probably would have mentioned it to the pitcher and other coach just to make sure she learns a little, but in a way that doesnt let you rattle the pitcher. I doubtless am getting enough walks as it is.

I would not have given you a rules clinc later in the game.

[kfrisbee]

Thanks for the input everyone.

I am always interested in the thinking ways of umpires.

It seems that everything went the way it should have gone (and I learned something in the process).

It was a good day overall