Illegal Pitch Penalty Redux

[AtlUmpSteve]

Youngump, you are confusing and mixing a few different issues.

The penalty notes that the ball becomes dead at the end of playing action if the ball is pitched, not that the penalty is applied based on the results of playing action. The purpose is to allow the possibility of the batter hitting the ball or becoming a baserunner.

Granted the wording is unclear, and might lead to your conclusion, but the award is a ball on the batter and a base to all baserunners without liability to be put out. And, that award is from the time of the pitch; that is when it became illegal, and that is the time it is called, therefore, like all other awarded bases, that is the basic time of the award.

So, if the ball is not hit, and the batter does not become a batterrunner, the penalty MUST be applied. No option, even if the runners circle the bases like a merry-go-round. In your sit1, what you originally thought (but overthought). In your sit2, the coach has no option, either; the ball was not hit, the batter did not become a batterrunner, so the OC has no available option, just the illegal pitch remedy.

So, to summarize, the enforcement in NFHS is absolute; the coach ONLY has the option if the ball is hit or the batter becomes a baserunner. If either condition is met, the coach ALWAYS has an option; if neither condition is met, the coach has NO option.

In NCAA and ASA, the enforcement is different. The coach always has the option, as long as the ball is pitched; UNLESS batter and all runners advance at least one base safely (then the result of the play always stands, without a coach's option).

[youngump]

Originally Posted by SRW

I see your point tho... WHEN does the ball become dead? After the batter doesn't make contact, or at the conclusion of playing action (which could be considered after F2 throws down.).

From the rules as posted in the other thread by Dakota:
The ball is dead at the end of playing action, if the ball is pitched.

Thanks Steve for breaking it down.

Perhaps, the right way to square this is that if the award is from TOP then they weren't out at the awarded base since they had no liability. But if the out is after the awarded base it's meant to stand. And subsequent advances are fine because they advanced during a live ball before being awarded the previous base. Much like stealing third from first after the batter gets ball 4.
If the runners aren't actively moving, call time immediately, if they are wait and see.

One small thing:

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

And, that award is from the time of the pitch; that is when it became illegal, and that is the time it is called, therefore, like all other awarded bases, that is the basic time of the award.

The time of the award can't be when the pitch becomes illegal because the runners are still bound to their base. It has to be awarded once the ball is released.
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[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by youngump

From the rules as posted in the other thread by Dakota:
The ball is dead at the end of playing action, if the ball is pitched.

Thanks Steve for breaking it down.

Perhaps, the right way to square this is that if the award is from TOP then they weren't out at the awarded base since they had no liability. But if the out is after the awarded base it's meant to stand. And subsequent advances are fine because they advanced during a live ball before being awarded the previous base. Much like stealing third from first after the batter gets ball 4.
If the runners aren't actively moving, call time immediately, if they are wait and see.

One small thing:



The time of the award can't be when the pitch becomes illegal because the runners are still bound to their base. It has to be awarded once the ball is released.

I think you are still seeing something that isn't there. In NFHS, if the ball isn't hit, and the batter does not become a batter-runner, then not having an option means, in effect, there was no subsequent playing action. Everything reverts to the time of the pitch, when the illegal pitch happened, and when it was called. That means, yes, the award is from the time of the pitch; one base from the base they were bound to prior to the pitch.

No subsequent action also means they cannot be out at any base; not at, prior to, or even after the awarded base. They are, as the award states, granted that award without liability. If they overrun in play that didn't happen, then they still aren't out. Once the ball is not hit, and the batter does not become a batter-runner, nothing has happened; the dead ball from the illegal pitch is the only possible result in NFHS.

In NCAA and ASA, since there is always the option, then subsequent play remains. But if the coach can and does accept the award, the award is one base from the time of the pitch; even if they overran that awarded base and were out in the play that has been declined by the coach with the option.

All of A (the award for the illegal pitch; or all of B (the result of the play). Period.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I think you are still seeing something that isn't there. In NFHS, if the ball isn't hit, and the batter does not become a batter-runner, then not having an option means, in effect, there was no subsequent playing action. Everything reverts to the time of the pitch, when the illegal pitch happened, and when it was called. That means, yes, the award is from the time of the pitch; one base from the base they were bound to prior to the pitch.

No subsequent action also means they cannot be out at any base; not at, prior to, or even after the awarded base. They are, as the award states, granted that award without liability. If they overrun in play that didn't happen, then they still aren't out. Once the ball is not hit, and the batter does not become a batter-runner, nothing has happened; the dead ball from the illegal pitch is the only possible result in NFHS.

In NCAA and ASA, since there is always the option, then subsequent play remains. But if the coach can and does accept the award, the award is one base from the time of the pitch; even if they overran that awarded base and were out in the play that has been declined by the coach with the option.

All of A (the award for the illegal pitch; or all of B (the result of the play). Period.

Nope, I'm reading something that's very clearly there. The ball is not dead at the end of the pitch. It's dead at the end of playing action. Your way is certainly simpler though.
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