Rules Question ??

[hoosfan]

Can anyone explain the DP/Flex rule to me in Laymans terms. If so i would greatly appreciate it. The rule book confuses the hell out of me on this. Thanks

[MGKBLUE]

Try this website under Designated Player Rule

Cactus Umpires: High School Umpire Stuff

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by hoosfan

Can anyone explain the DP/Flex rule to me in Laymans terms. If so i would greatly appreciate it. The rule book confuses the hell out of me on this. Thanks

In its very simplist form, the DP plays offense and the FLEX plays defense. As long as each of them are doing their job, everything is great. Now, let us suppose for a minute that the coach tells you they want the FLEX to bat. The ONLY person the FLEX can bat for is the DP. No one else. Since the DP is not doing her job (playing offense), then she is currently not in the game. She does have one re-entry, though, just like any other player. (Or in NCAA, any other starter.)

Does that help?

[Skahtboi]

Keep in mind, that is a very, very cursory version of the rule.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Here's something I pulled together from a couple of sources from last summer. I think these should all still be current.

Ted

A definition of the Flex and DP offered by Glenn Colburn, NH ASA Umpire In Chief

About the Twins - You can't have one without the other.

They are like "twins" and they are special. They have very special privileges but not without restrictions.

If the twins are in a game they must be in a starting line-up. If not in starting line-up then you will never have twins in the game. Always check your line-up. If 10, determine which is the hitter.

Each twin has their own position in the line-up.
The DP is the dominant twin... she was born first. She has more privileges.
The DP must play offense to be considered in the game. The DP has not left the game until she leaves her offensive position.
The DP can never play just defense.
The DP can play defense for any of the other nine players in the line-up. (So the twins could be on defense at the same time.)

The FLEX must play defense to be considered in the game. The FLEX has not left the game until she leaves her defensive position.
The FLEX can never play just offense.
The FLEX can only play offense for the DP. (So the twins cannot be on offense at the same time.)

Each twin can leave her position in the line-up and return to that same position one time during the game. (Re-entry).
Each twin may use the other twins spot in the line-up but not at the same time.
Each twin play both offense and defense but they both can't play both at the same time.


Rule 4, Section 3,
D. The DP may be substituted for at any time, by a pinch-hitter, pinch-runner or the FLEX. If the starting DP is replaced on offense by the FLEX, the DP will leave the game. If replaced by a substitute the DP position remains in the line-up. A starting DP may re-enter one time, as long as the DP returns to the original position in the batting order.
1. If replaced by the FLEX, this reduces the number of players from 10 to nine. If the DP does not re-enter, the game may legally end with nine players.
2. If the DP re-enters and the FLEX was batting in the DP’s position, the FLEX can return to the number 10 position and play defense only or leave the game.
E. The DP may play any defensive position. Should the DP play defense for a player other than the one for whom the DP is batting (FLEX), that player will continue to bat but not play defense, and is not considered to have left the game. If the DP plays defense for the FLEX, the FLEX is considered to have left the game. This reduces the number of players from 10 to nine. The FLEX can re-enter the game.
F. The person being batted for (FLEX) may be substituted for at any time, by a legal substitute or the DP for whom the FLEX is playing defense. The FLEX may re-enter the game one time, in the number 10 position or in the DP’s position in the batting order.
G. If returning to the number 10 position, the FLEX will again play defense only but may play any defensive position.
H. If the FLEX returns to the DP’s position, the FLEX will play offense and defense; there will be only nine players in the batting order.
I. Placing the defensive only player (FLEX) into one of the first nine positions for someone other than the original DP is considered an illegal player. The illegal player shall be disqualified. Rule 4 section 7. The FLEX replacing the DP is not considered a substitution for the FLEX. The DP who has left the game, can re-enter the game.

RULES SUPPLEMENT

15. DESIGNATED PLAYER OR DP (Fast Pitch).
The designated player may be listed in any of the nine batting positions in the batting order. The player listed tenth in the batting order plays defense for the DP, but may also play offense for the DP, and is called the FLEX.
A. A designated player (DP) may be used for any defensive player provided it is made known to the plate umpire prior to the start of the game. The DP must be indicated on the line-up card as one of the nine hitters in the batting order.
B. The name of the player for whom the DP is batting, FLEX, must be placed in the tenth position in the batting order.
C. The DP and any substitutes for the DP must remain in the same position in the batting order throughout the game. The FLEX and all substitutes for the FLEX must enter the game in the tenth position in the line-up card.
D. The DP may be substituted for at any time by a pinch hitter or pinch runner. The substitute becomes the DP and has all the options of the DP position. The starting DP and a substitute for the DP may not be in the game at the same time.
E. The FLEX may be substituted for at any time. The substitute becomes the FLEX and has all the options of the FLEX position. The starting FLEX and a substitute for the FLEX may not be in the game at the same time.
F. The starting DP and their substitute may be replaced by the FLEX as a hitter or as a runner. This reduces the number of players in the game from ten to nine. The DP and the FLEX may not be on offense at the same time.
G. The FLEX may be replaced on defense by the DP. This reduces the number of players in the game from ten to nine. The DP and the FLEX may be on defense at the same time.
H. The starting DP may re-enter the game one time, but only in the original DP position in the batting order. If the DP re-enters and the FLEX is batting in the DP position, the FLEX must:
1. Return to the number ten position in the line-up and play defense only. This is not considered to have left the game. Or,
2. Leave the game.
I. The starting FLEX may re-enter the game one time and must:
1. Return to the original FLEX position, tenth in the line-up card, or
2. Take the place of the starting DP in the batting order. If the FLEX re-enters and the DP is playing defense in the FLEX position, the DP must continue to bat in the DP position in the batting order, play offense only or play defense for another player. This is not considered to have left the game.
J. The DP may play defense for any player and at any position. Should the DP play defense for a player other than the FLEX, that position player continues to bat and does not play defense. That player is not considered to have left the game.
K. The role of the DP / FLEX is never terminated. A team may go from ten to nine players and back to ten players any number of times during the game. The game may end with ten or nine players.
L. If the DP replaces the FLEX, or the FLEX replaces the DP, the change must be reported to the umpire. If not reported, the change is treated the same as an unreported substitute.

[wadeintothem]

hmmm.. I always thought the Twins thing, as confusing as it is to me, was Emily's.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

hmmm.. I always thought the Twins thing, as confusing as it is to me, was Emily's.

I believe you are correct, sir!

Originally Posted by hoosfan

The rule book confuses the hell out of me on this.

Hmmmm...I never thought the rule book could do that...I always thought it was the Bible.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Hmmmm...I never thought the rule book could do that...I always thought it was the Bible.

Well, if'n it got the he!! out, I guess it probably is the bible, typos and all!

Ted

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by hoosfan

Can anyone explain the DP/Flex rule to me in Laymans terms. If so i would greatly appreciate it. The rule book confuses the hell out of me on this. Thanks

The key to understanding it is taking one piece at a time:
- starting lineup requirements
- possible changes for the DP
- possible changes for the FLEX
- when a re-entry is required
- etc.

- or some other breakdown, just not all of it at once.

Walking through some possibilities with an experienced ump is good, too.

[Tru_in_Blu]

I attended an NFSH mechanics clinic today and Glenn Colburn was a presentor. I asked him about the "twins" analogy regarding the DP/Flex and he immediately said that it was authored by Emily Alexander.

So the authenticity of the document has been confirmed. As mentioned, when you find something good, latch on to it. I was probably wrong to attach Glenn's name to it [although it came off a web site] and meant no disrespect to Emily or Glenn.

Secondarily, we viewed the ASA DVD since 99% of the mechanics for ASA and NFHS are the same. I'll join those who said that it was well organized and presented. [But did anyone else notice that it seemed like the BR only hit the white portion of the double-base a lot?]

Thirdly, I mentioned the situation with the dropped third strike and time out and the BR still standing near HP. That perplexed him some and he could offer nothing beyond "you screwed up". Maybe after it percolates for a bit, he'll come up with a response.

Ted

[wadeintothem]

Its my experience that the absolute WORST place to discuss a rules related scenario is with a instructor at a clinic. The atmosphere is wrong, message lost in translation, and its inevitably screwed up. You will always do better here and with self study than posing the question at a clinic where the instructor takes about 2 seconds then shoots from the hip.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Technically, it was after the clinic in a one-on-one conversation. So he wasn't thiking of getting back to the lessons or taking questions from other attendees.

Still curious as to what the correct protocol for the scenario should be.

Ted

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by hoosfan

Can anyone explain the DP/Flex rule to me in Laymans terms. If so i would greatly appreciate it. The rule book confuses the hell out of me on this. Thanks

As you can see, the answer to that is... no

Read it and ask specific questions for clarity.

There are too many variables to lay out a few sentence laymans explanation of this rule.