Batter awarded 1st base?

[hawk65]

High school varsity. The count is 3-1, nobody on base. Next pitch is called a strike and the catcher throws to 1st base thinking it was the third strike and the batter was out. Coach of the batting team calls time and says batter should be awarded 1st base since the catcher threw the ball to 1st. I'm the plate umpire and am not aware of the rule, so I call time and ask the more experienced base umpire. He tells me the coach is correct so I award the batter 1st base. No protest from the opposing coach. After the game, I tell my partner I learned something new today. He says he's certain it is an ASA rule but not sure about NFHS. I can't find anything about this in the NFHS books. Should the batter be awarded 1st base? Please cite which rule this is.

[Chess Ref]

Rule 6-7-B addresses this for ASA.

I'm trying to come up with a way to not make that call. Seems silly to have ball 4 in the sitch.

[wadeintothem]

NFHS 6-3-2

Good tough call blue.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

Rule 6-7-B addresses this for ASA.

I'm trying to come up with a way to not make that call. Seems silly to have ball 4 in the sitch.

Reason to make the call: It's the RULE!!

Reason not to make the call: Because you think you know more than those that make the rules.

[greymule]

I hate that rule. Some others, too.

Does that rule apply during a dead ball?

Does it apply if the catcher mistakenly thinks the batter has become a batter-runner on an uncaught strike 3 (e.g., batter runs after a checked swing on a 2-2 pitch that gets away from F2)?

[Tru_in_Blu]

Another reason to not make the call is the exception:

"Intentionally violating the rule in order to walk the batter without pitching shall not result in a ball being awarded to the batter."

...as in tie game, 7th inning, division leading home run hitter at the plate.

I always try to announce the count when the next pitch might be decisive, even if/when the batter takes the pitch. So almost anytime the batter has either or both of 3 balls or 2 strikes.

Ted

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

Rule 6-7-B addresses this for ASA.

I'm trying to come up with a way to not make that call.

Try: Can't make that call coach, I had my eyes closed and didn't see it happen.:

[wadeintothem]

I'm not particularly found of the rule myself.. among others..

Hell, make me ASA king for a day and crash interference is gone, metal cleats are in, any type of verbal OBS or INT or faking out a runner being OBS is gone, add back in "about to receive" for OBS

Still gotta enforce the rules, fed or ASA... we dont get to pick.

Its a tough call and you make it and thats it.

[Dholloway1962]

Originally Posted by hawk65

Should the batter be awarded 1st base?

A point of clarification, the rule states that a ball is awarded to the batter. It is not an automatic first base award as some are, I believe, inadvertantly insinuating. In your case it is a ball on the batter, which was ball 4.

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Reason to make the call: It's the RULE!!

Reason not to make the call: Because you think you know more than those that make the rules.

Sometimes I do know more then those who make the rules.

I may kick the hell out of the rules on softball diamonds all across the Western USA but I never knowlingly ignore or kick a rule.

It still seems silly to make that call but I will.

[NCASAUmp]

Well, we're talking about high school varsity FP here. How many of you would make the same call on a 10U game?

You're lucky if the catcher can consistently get it back to the pitcher in the first place.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Well, we're talking about high school varsity FP here. How many of you would make the same call on a 10U game?

You're lucky if the catcher can consistently get it back to the pitcher in the first place.

10u tournament ball is the same as everything else IMO, and especially championship play.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

10u tournament ball is the same as everything else IMO, and especially championship play.

Tourney ball is, of course, different. But if you're calling the local 10U rec game, would you still make that call?

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here.

[BuggBob]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here.

Sorry I disagree but, there is clearly a right call: ball four, catcher did not return the ball to the pitcher; and a clear wrong call: ignore the whole thing because you don't like the rule.

[greymule]

Make me ASA king for a day and gone is the rule that allows the offense to benefit by deliberately committing interference.

I still want to know whether a "ball" is awarded during a dead ball (e.g., after a foul) or after F2 throws to 1B in a mistaken attempt to get a putout on the BR.

BuggBob: You are of course correct that we cannot ignore even idiotic rules. In 10u rec, however, they're not paying you to make a shambles of the game. Are you going to call every illegal pitch in 10u rec? Is your strike zone going to be as the book defines it? Are you going to enforce the lookback rule according to the book? Are you going to let runners break for the next base on the throw to the mound, or are you going to call time out to end the chaos when the runners stop?

Incidentally, I can cite some rules that I would never call, partly because they're bad rules, partly because almost nobody knows them.