Batter awarded 1st base?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

Rule 6-7-B addresses this for ASA.

I'm trying to come up with a way to not make that call. Seems silly to have ball 4 in the sitch.

Reason to make the call: It's the RULE!!

Reason not to make the call: Because you think you know more than those that make the rules.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Another reason to not make the call is the exception:

"Intentionally violating the rule in order to walk the batter without pitching shall not result in a ball being awarded to the batter."

...as in tie game, 7th inning, division leading home run hitter at the plate.

I always try to announce the count when the next pitch might be decisive, even if/when the batter takes the pitch. So almost anytime the batter has either or both of 3 balls or 2 strikes.

Ted

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Reason to make the call: It's the RULE!!

Reason not to make the call: Because you think you know more than those that make the rules.

Sometimes I do know more then those who make the rules.

I may kick the hell out of the rules on softball diamonds all across the Western USA but I never knowlingly ignore or kick a rule.

It still seems silly to make that call but I will.

[NCASAUmp]

Well, we're talking about high school varsity FP here. How many of you would make the same call on a 10U game?

You're lucky if the catcher can consistently get it back to the pitcher in the first place.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Well, we're talking about high school varsity FP here. How many of you would make the same call on a 10U game?

You're lucky if the catcher can consistently get it back to the pitcher in the first place.

10u tournament ball is the same as everything else IMO, and especially championship play.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

10u tournament ball is the same as everything else IMO, and especially championship play.

Tourney ball is, of course, different. But if you're calling the local 10U rec game, would you still make that call?

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here.

[BuggBob]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here.

Sorry I disagree but, there is clearly a right call: ball four, catcher did not return the ball to the pitcher; and a clear wrong call: ignore the whole thing because you don't like the rule.

[greymule]

Make me ASA king for a day and gone is the rule that allows the offense to benefit by deliberately committing interference.

I still want to know whether a "ball" is awarded during a dead ball (e.g., after a foul) or after F2 throws to 1B in a mistaken attempt to get a putout on the BR.

BuggBob: You are of course correct that we cannot ignore even idiotic rules. In 10u rec, however, they're not paying you to make a shambles of the game. Are you going to call every illegal pitch in 10u rec? Is your strike zone going to be as the book defines it? Are you going to enforce the lookback rule according to the book? Are you going to let runners break for the next base on the throw to the mound, or are you going to call time out to end the chaos when the runners stop?

Incidentally, I can cite some rules that I would never call, partly because they're bad rules, partly because almost nobody knows them.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by greymule

Make me ASA king for a day and gone is the rule that allows the offense to benefit by deliberately committing interference.

I still want to know whether a "ball" is awarded during a dead ball (e.g., after a foul) or after F2 throws to 1B in a mistaken attempt to get a putout on the BR.

The rule applies any time the catcher does not throw the ball directly back to the pitcher with no runners on, except after a strikeout (can throw around), a put out (can throw around), or an attempted put out by the catcher.

Yes; after a foul ball that is retrieved by the catcher. Yes, a mistaken attempt is not an attempt (except in NCAA); there has to be someone to attempt to put out.

ASA 8.7-B, NFHS 6-3-2, NCAA 10-16 (NCAA does grant the added exception of the BR runs even if not entitled to run)

[Dholloway1962]

Originally Posted by greymule

I still want to know whether a "ball" is awarded during a dead ball (e.g., after a foul) or after F2 throws to 1B in a mistaken attempt to get a putout on the BR.

On a dead ball I say no, how can you award anything that occurs during a dead ball?

On the 2nd question I would say if there was some type of legitimate confusion based on a call that the umpire had to make (check swing for example) then I say you have nothing, especially if the runner takes off as you first mentioned. Rules allow an umpire to correct this.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by greymule

You are of course correct that we cannot ignore even idiotic rules. In 10u rec, however, they're not paying you to make a shambles of the game. Are you going to call every illegal pitch in 10u rec? Is your strike zone going to be as the book defines it? Are you going to enforce the lookback rule according to the book? Are you going to let runners break for the next base on the throw to the mound, or are you going to call time out to end the chaos when the runners stop?

Incidentally, I can cite some rules that I would never call, partly because they're bad rules, partly because almost nobody knows them.

And that's basically what I was getting at. If I'm calling a purely rec game with small kids, I'm not going to go by the exact letter of the rulebook, and you'd be deluding yourself if you say you'd do otherwise. As long as the defense does not gain some sort of advantage and as long as the integrity of the game is preserved, I will not call it for small kids. If a coach wants to protest it, s/he may, and I'll let the league decide if they really want me to nitpick every rule on a 10U game.

Mind you, I don't call FP. I only call SP. However, for the first 4 years of my umpiring career, I called kids' games, ranging from age 9 through 14.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by greymule

Are you going to enforce the lookback rule according to the book? Are you going to let runners break for the next base on the throw to the mound,

Whatsa "mound"?

[ronald]

Gotta go with what Mike said "I did not see that, coach"