NFHS Play

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

I am not saying that's how I would call it. Just chucking something out there to think about. OC probably figured that with the ball tied up in the rundown she could make it and by some stroke of luck (or an OBS call) the run would score.

Something else - The OP says that the BR was tagged out sliding into third. What if she would have reached safely then F5 tagged her on the base since R1 was entitled to the base. Then you call dead ball and award the OBS but what about Naomi on third base? Is she still the third out?

nope. because the lead runner's actual place is at home plate. and by the defense's error she wasn't at home but stuck at third.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

nope. because the lead runner's actual place is at home plate. and by the defense's error she wasn't at home but stuck at third.

Sorry, I'm not following. You would not call a runner out if two runners were on the same base solely because you intend to award that runner another base later?
________
properties Pattaya

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by youngump

Sorry, I'm not following. You would not call a runner out if two runners were on the same base solely because you intend to award that runner another base later?

FED play goes like this... obs rounding third on lead runner (and i judge that she would have made home without the OBS) ... lead runner is in rundown between third and home...goes into third safely....trail runner is standing on third also... fielder tags trail runner (for the appeal). I call time, point lead runner to home... turn to trail runner and throw the safe sign.
then take a deep breath, because DC is for sure coming to see me.

anyone see anything wrong with this?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

FED play goes like this... obs rounding third on lead runner (and i judge that she would have made home without the OBS) ... lead runner is in rundown between third and home...goes into third safely....trail runner is standing on third also... fielder tags trail runner (for the appeal). I call time, point lead runner to home... turn to trail runner and throw the safe sign.
then take a deep breath, because DC is for sure coming to see me.

anyone see anything wrong with this?

I don't see where the BR/R was affected by the OBS. Other rules are not suspended because of an OBS and protection is only applied to the runner obstructed.

Now, if the BR/R stopped at 2B and, IMJ, believed the player would have reached 3B had the OBS not occurred, then I may chose to award that player 3B.

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I don't see where the BR/R was affected by the OBS. Other rules are not suspended because of an OBS and protection is only applied to the runner obstructed.

Now, if the BR/R stopped at 2B and, IMJ, believed the player would have reached 3B had the OBS not occurred, then I may chose to award that player 3B.

ok, im sort of with ya.... BUT, how do i justify by rule calling the trail runner out for being on the bag that she legally obtained? when by rule the lead runner has not actually obtained third but home by judgment and error by the defense?
( i am not awarding her home, i am giving her home that she would have legally obtained had the OBS not occurred)

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

ok, im sort of with ya.... BUT, how do i justify by rule calling the trail runner out for being on the bag that she legally obtained? when by rule the lead runner has not actually obtained third but home by judgment and error by the defense?
( i am not awarding her home, i am giving her home that she would have legally obtained had the OBS not occurred)

When we see (and call) the OBS, we are judging where the obstructed runner should be protected. At the same time, we also have to be mindful of other runners at the time of OBS, and of subsequent play.

So, if you are telling us that at the time of OBS, you say to yourself "lead runner scores, trail runner gets third", then your preferred ruling is justified, since NOT reaching third safely is the result of the OBS. But, and I think this is what many of us are visualizing, if trail only gets to third because of the rundown occupying the defense, then trail isn't entitled to be dragged into the award, and if put out during live play there, then the out should stand.

Remember, you are trying to say trail legally aquired third, but that isn't correct; trail isn't entitled to third if lead hasn't already touched the next base, and when lead returns, trail is in jeopardy.

Might be a tough sell, but that's the way the rule is to be applied.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Remember, you are trying to say trail legally aquired third, but that isn't correct; trail isn't entitled to third if lead hasn't already touched the next base, and when lead returns, trail is in jeopardy.

I think this is the key, 3rd belongs to the lead runner until reaching home and that did not occur until after the tag of the trail runner.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

ok, im sort of with ya.... BUT, how do i justify by rule calling the trail runner out for being on the bag that she legally obtained?

As I said, other rules are not suspended. The ball is still live and you have two active runners. The rule clearly states the trail runner would be out in this situation. The lead runner ALWAYS owns a base until they have been retired or forced by a trailing runner.

when by rule the lead runner has not actually obtained third but home by judgment and error by the defense?
( i am not awarding her home, i am giving her home that she would have legally obtained had the OBS not occurred)

It is an award (and to the best of my knowledge, cannot be effected until the ball is killed), she is still a live runner and subject to being retired between 3B & Home if there is a subsequent rule violation.

I'll stick with a DMR, go get your glove.

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

As I said, other rules are not suspended. The ball is still live and you have two active runners. The rule clearly states the trail runner would be out in this situation. The lead runner ALWAYS owns a base until they have been retired or forced by a trailing runner.



It is an award (and to the best of my knowledge, cannot be effected until the ball is killed), she is still a live runner and subject to being retired between 3B & Home if there is a subsequent rule violation.

I'll stick with a DMR, go get your glove.

good food for thought.. .thanks you guys.