Another ASA Play

[Tru_in_Blu]

My take will focus on the PU not accepting the protest. Simply stated, he can't accept or deny a protest. It's his responsibility to notify the opposing manager that the game is being played under protest. So the PU was wrong in that regard,

The play at first base where a BR touches only the white portion of the base is an appeal that must be made immediately. Given that the defense opted to retire another member of the offense, i.e. they made a play and retired the runner, the appeal at 1B for only touching the white portion of the double base is no longer in play.

That's my guess, but I'm not sure where that's written or otherwise spelled out in the rule book.

An added opinion, I never like the rule that says if the runner misses the base on a banger at 1B that we're suppose to call the runner safe and then wait for the defense to appeal. If F3 hears a safe call, even knowing the runner missed the base, but sees another runner advancing, it's likely that he'll need to make a play on that runner immediately rather than risk an appeal. Sure, he could yell out the runner missed the base and that could be considered an appeal, even as he's making the play on another runner. That would require some very quick thinking by a really head's up player.

Ted

[NCASAUmp]

I'm looking at the question given: was the PU's refusal to accept the protest correct? My answer: hell no. Is this PU just afraid of a silly little protest? Get it right, bub. If you blew it, you blew it, but accept the protest of a rule interpretation and get that game moving.

As for the appeal, well, this is simply a missed base appeal. BR was supposed to tag the orange bag, but did not. They missed the bag. I've got another out.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

My take will focus on the PU not accepting the protest. Simply stated, he can't accept or deny a protest. It's his responsibility to notify the opposing manager that the game is being played under protest. So the PU was wrong in that regard,

So if a coach or manager wants to protest a judgment call, the PU is supposed to accept the protest? Don't think so, bub.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

So if a coach or manager wants to protest a judgment call, the PU is supposed to accept the protest? Don't think so, bub.

Of course, if the manager doesn't buy that the denial is right, they can always protest that ruling it a judgment call was a misinterpretation of the rules. Then the UIC can come and decide whether the first issue was protestable followed by determining if the rules application was right.
________
lesbians Cam

[Tru_in_Blu]

The coach can protest balls and strikes if he likes. It's not up to the plate umpire to accept or deny. Unless the coach follows up with a written protest to the league officials within the timeframe stipulated by league bylaws, it will become moot.

Even if it is filed properly, the UIC and/or league officials will rule on it or simply throw it out if it's deemed invalid.

If a coach came to me and told me he was protesting my strike zone and I told him it wasn't a protestable issue and he said he was protesting anyway, I'd inform the other coach and get the game moving again.

Ted [sometimes referred to as "bub"]

[greymule]

Thirty-three years ago I saw a game put under protest based on the umpire. Not a play, not an interpretation, not a ruling. Just a protest of the umpire himself.

I know it sounds like something out of Sartre or Kafka, but it did happen. The catcher/manager turned around and said, "We're playing the game under protest." When the umpire responded, "For what?" the catcher said merely "You!" The ump informed the catcher that such a protest was not possible, but the catcher insisted, so the ump announced the protest, and play resumed.

I don't know how the league ruled, but I suspect the protest was not upheld. On the other hand, this was New Jersey . . .

[Dholloway1962]

Originally Posted by greymule

I know it sounds like something out of Sartre or Kafka, but it did happen. The catcher/manager turned around and said, "We're playing the game under protest." When the umpire responded, "For what?" the catcher said merely "You!" The ump informed the catcher that such a protest was not possible, but the catcher insisted, so the ump announced the protest, and play resumed.

If that game continued with that catcher/manager any where near the fields, then the umpire was indeed an idiot!!!!

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by greymule

I know it sounds like something out of Sartre . . .

So that's what he meant by, "Hell is other people."

[greymule]

We should be careful about applying the baseball concept of "continuing action" to softball.

R1 on 2B. B2 hits a grounder to F6, who fakes R1 back to 2B and then throws to 1B. B2 beats the throw but touches only the white (i.e., misses 1B). The ball gets away from F3.

B2 advances to 2B. R1 rounds 3B and stands 20 feet down the line, trying to draw a throw. F3 runs the ball in and chases R1 all the way back to 3B. F3 then hands the ball to F1, who is standing next to her near 3B. As F3 returns to her position, F1 walks toward the circle while R1 stands on 3B talking to the 3B coach. Several seconds later, just before F1 enters the circle, R1 breaks for home. F1 throws home in an attempt to get R1 (outcome doesn't matter).

The defense now appeals B2's miss of 1B.

In ASA, regardless of how much or what type of action occurs after a baserunning error, the defense can appeal until the next pitch, legal or illegal (or the infielders have vacated, or last play of game and umpires have left, etc.). Therefore, the appeal should be upheld.

In OBR, the intervening play—after the stoppage of continuing action—would void the right of the defense to appeal.

(Note: Fed and NCAA baseball don't follow OBR exactly in this area. I'm not sure, but I think they recognize continuing versus relaxed action but do not void an appeal if the offense initiates the intervening play.)

The concept of continuing versus relaxed action certainly complicates the game, but remember that in baseball, runners can break for the next base at any time that the ball is live, such as when the pitcher is getting the sign. In OBR, in theory, several batters could bat without the ball becoming dead. This of course is not true in softball. And (except for Babe Ruth), softball permits dead ball appeals, which OBR does not.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by greymule

We should be careful about applying the baseball concept of "continuing action" to softball.

R1 on 2B. B2 hits a grounder to F6, who fakes R1 back to 2B and then throws to 1B. B2 beats the throw but touches only the white (i.e., misses 1B). The ball gets away from F3.

B2 advances to 2B. R1 rounds 3B and stands 20 feet down the line, trying to draw a throw. F3 runs the ball in and chases R1 all the way back to 3B. F3 then hands the ball to F1, who is standing next to her near 3B. As F3 returns to her position, F1 walks toward the circle while R1 stands on 3B talking to the 3B coach. Several seconds later, just before F1 enters the circle, R1 breaks for home. F1 throws home in an attempt to get R1 (outcome doesn't matter).

The defense now appeals B2's miss of 1B.

In ASA, regardless of how much or what type of action occurs after a baserunning error, the defense can appeal until the next pitch, legal or illegal (or the infielders have vacated, or last play of game and umpires have left, etc.). Therefore, the appeal should be upheld.

In OBR, the intervening play—after the stoppage of continuing action—would void the right of the defense to appeal.

(Note: Fed and NCAA baseball don't follow OBR exactly in this area. I'm not sure, but I think they recognize continuing versus relaxed action but do not void an appeal if the offense initiates the intervening play.)

The concept of continuing versus relaxed action certainly complicates the game, but remember that in baseball, runners can break for the next base at any time that the ball is live, such as when the pitcher is getting the sign. In OBR, in theory, several batters could bat without the ball becoming dead. This of course is not true in softball. And (except for Babe Ruth), softball permits dead ball appeals, which OBR does not.

And all that is fine (even in 'bama), if we were talking about appeals. We are talking about a protest.