Another ASA Play

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

UIC Clinic attendees - please refrain from responding for at least 24 hours.

I'll respond . . . Mike, did you write these down?

And I like the way you used BR to refer to the Batter Runner. Why do we give the Batter Runner a number?

And I'll refrain from mentioning how inane it is to say: "R1 at second."

Hijack over, answer Mike's question, the answer is very interesting.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

I'll respond . . . Mike, did you write these down?

And I like the way you used BR to refer to the Batter Runner. Why do we give the Batter Runner a number?

And I'll refrain from mentioning how inane it is to say: "R1 at second."

Hijack over, answer Mike's question, the answer is very interesting.

The BR is always referred to as the BR until the time she becomes a runner. In the course of one play, the BR will not become a R. I know of no one who describes plays in that manner, unless it is the little ball folk.

[Big Slick]

Original play, and all plays this weekend, referred to the Batter Runner as B3 (in this case) or B2. This system directly lead to our group misreading one particular play.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Original play, and all plays this weekend, referred to the Batter Runner as B3 (in this case) or B2. This system directly lead to our group misreading one particular play.

Wonder why they did that?

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

Wonder why they DO that?

Fixed it for you. See every case play listed on ASA's website. And it just isn't the ASA:
http://www.nfhs.org/web/2009/02/2009...s_interpr.aspx

And yes, region 3 people like to complain

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Original play, and all plays this weekend, referred to the Batter Runner as B3 (in this case) or B2. This system directly lead to our group misreading one particular play.

Leave it to a Little Pineapple to not refrain as requested.

No, I did not write them down.

BR is not assigned a # as there can only be one and it is a temporary designation at that.

B2 is the proper designation as the set-up info provides.

There is no, nor should there be, B3 in the scenario.

And "R1 on 2B" is the appropriate set-up (keep your baseball on the other board ).

Did you not pay attention? It cannot be the alcohol since you did not drink that much.....so it must be those damn cigars you were sucking on.

[Big Slick]

Ok, you are right (jet lag I guess . . . and for 1- I'm way bigger than the pineapple, so I can't be "little" and 2- I am no pineapple).

Then why give a number when the batter is at bat and remove the number? Crazy convention.

I have not discussed one baseball play, so I do not know of their conventions. R1 being on first is more efficient.

(Darn, I said I was finished with the hijack)

And I did my drinking away from the country bar. Blame it on the Boone's!!!

[Tru_in_Blu]

My take will focus on the PU not accepting the protest. Simply stated, he can't accept or deny a protest. It's his responsibility to notify the opposing manager that the game is being played under protest. So the PU was wrong in that regard,

The play at first base where a BR touches only the white portion of the base is an appeal that must be made immediately. Given that the defense opted to retire another member of the offense, i.e. they made a play and retired the runner, the appeal at 1B for only touching the white portion of the double base is no longer in play.

That's my guess, but I'm not sure where that's written or otherwise spelled out in the rule book.

An added opinion, I never like the rule that says if the runner misses the base on a banger at 1B that we're suppose to call the runner safe and then wait for the defense to appeal. If F3 hears a safe call, even knowing the runner missed the base, but sees another runner advancing, it's likely that he'll need to make a play on that runner immediately rather than risk an appeal. Sure, he could yell out the runner missed the base and that could be considered an appeal, even as he's making the play on another runner. That would require some very quick thinking by a really head's up player.

Ted

[NCASAUmp]

I'm looking at the question given: was the PU's refusal to accept the protest correct? My answer: hell no. Is this PU just afraid of a silly little protest? Get it right, bub. If you blew it, you blew it, but accept the protest of a rule interpretation and get that game moving.

As for the appeal, well, this is simply a missed base appeal. BR was supposed to tag the orange bag, but did not. They missed the bag. I've got another out.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

My take will focus on the PU not accepting the protest. Simply stated, he can't accept or deny a protest. It's his responsibility to notify the opposing manager that the game is being played under protest. So the PU was wrong in that regard,

So if a coach or manager wants to protest a judgment call, the PU is supposed to accept the protest? Don't think so, bub.

[greymule]

We should be careful about applying the baseball concept of "continuing action" to softball.

R1 on 2B. B2 hits a grounder to F6, who fakes R1 back to 2B and then throws to 1B. B2 beats the throw but touches only the white (i.e., misses 1B). The ball gets away from F3.

B2 advances to 2B. R1 rounds 3B and stands 20 feet down the line, trying to draw a throw. F3 runs the ball in and chases R1 all the way back to 3B. F3 then hands the ball to F1, who is standing next to her near 3B. As F3 returns to her position, F1 walks toward the circle while R1 stands on 3B talking to the 3B coach. Several seconds later, just before F1 enters the circle, R1 breaks for home. F1 throws home in an attempt to get R1 (outcome doesn't matter).

The defense now appeals B2's miss of 1B.

In ASA, regardless of how much or what type of action occurs after a baserunning error, the defense can appeal until the next pitch, legal or illegal (or the infielders have vacated, or last play of game and umpires have left, etc.). Therefore, the appeal should be upheld.

In OBR, the intervening play—after the stoppage of continuing action—would void the right of the defense to appeal.

(Note: Fed and NCAA baseball don't follow OBR exactly in this area. I'm not sure, but I think they recognize continuing versus relaxed action but do not void an appeal if the offense initiates the intervening play.)

The concept of continuing versus relaxed action certainly complicates the game, but remember that in baseball, runners can break for the next base at any time that the ball is live, such as when the pitcher is getting the sign. In OBR, in theory, several batters could bat without the ball becoming dead. This of course is not true in softball. And (except for Babe Ruth), softball permits dead ball appeals, which OBR does not.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Then why give a number when the batter is at bat and remove the number? Crazy convention.

I have not discussed one baseball play, so I do not know of their conventions. R1 being on first is more efficient.

You are discussing baseball just by indicating their method of player designation. You didn't pay attention to JJ in the OBS/INT portion, did you?

And I did my drinking away from the country bar. Blame it on the Boone's!!!

So did I at the Cimmaron, Louies and the Bombay Club. And that fiasco from Reg 14. Good food and door prizes, but four hundred umpires and they only buy two kegs and put a 3rd on hold. I can understand not wanting everyone there all night, but damn, to run out of beer is just sinful

[Tru_in_Blu]

Do we have an answer to the riddle?

Thanx,

Ted

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

You are discussing baseball just by indicating their method of player designation. You didn't pay attention to JJ in the OBS/INT portion, did you?



So did I at the Cimmaron, Louies and the Bombay Club. And that fiasco from Reg 14. Good food and door prizes, but four hundred umpires and they only buy two kegs and put a 3rd on hold. I can understand not wanting everyone there all night, but damn, to run out of beer is just sinful

Maybe running out of 3.2 beer is a blessing.

And what was up with the bar closing at 11pm on Thursday?

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

The BR is always referred to as the BR until the time she becomes a runner. In the course of one play, the BR will not become a R. I know of no one who describes plays in that manner, unless it is the little ball folk.

This year for the first time I've noticed that just by definition this is not necessarily the case. I agree with your nomenclature and thats how I've always thought of and used the terms but the definitions indicate something else. I've read the rule book every year for the past seven years and have just noticed this this year.

Batter Runner: A player who has completed a turn at bat but has not yet been put out or reached first base.

Runner: An offensive player who has reached first base and has not yet been put out or scored.

So B1 lays down a bunt, between home and 1st she is a batter runner, by definition. Once she reaches first she now, by definition, becomes a runner.

I know there is language throughout the book that uses batter-runner rounding first base (i.e. the Look Back Rule, taking batter-runner to first base, etc), however, the definition disagrees with this.

Has anyone else every noticed the discrepancy in the definition and how its used in the book?