Another ASA Play

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

Mike still owes me a beer for his public "oops" on this one.....

Wait a minute! Seems to me, I picked up a nice sized check on Saturday night...or was it Sunday morning?. I think it covered about six states.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Wait a minute! Seems to me, I picked up a nice sized check on Saturday night...or was it Sunday morning?. I think it covered about six states.

You forgot a certain state in Region 4. My mouth is a little dry over here...

[AtlUmpSteve]

Region 4 was well represented. Your NC representatives (Phil, BJ and Al) opted out from the extracurricular (although I did drink with Al one dinner).

And there were several of those checks to go around. Our checks did represent GA, AZ, DE, PA, MD, NE and TX, as best I recall.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Region 4 was well represented. Your NC representatives (Phil, BJ and Al) opted out from the extracurricular (although I did drink with Al one dinner).

And there were several of those checks to go around. Our checks did represent GA, AZ, DE, PA, MD, NE and TX, as best I recall.

I appreciate the good words. I consider myself very privileged to know them.

Except Al. He's a bit off. Just kidding, Al's a great guy!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

And there were several of those checks to go around. Our checks did represent GA, AZ, DE, PA, MD, NE and TX, as best I recall.

I believe NM & DC may have also been at the table for at least one round.

Have no idea why the Great Northwest chose to not to share a beverage or two.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

---

After making a fool of myself by questioning the requirement of "next play" thanks to a brain fart that reverted to "appeal" as opposed to protest, it was explained, if I remember correctly as that is not the manner in which that qualification was intended.

Someone can correct me if wrong. The line of thought was that by using this to refuse the appeal, you are pretty much giving the offending team a break.

However, the more I think about it, I don't believe there really is a problem with the sentence. If used as I believe it was meant, in the play above the misinterpretation of the rule occurred when the umpire determined there was no violation by the BR.

Hence, there was no play between the misinterpretation and the protest. A team cannot protest an interpretation prior to it being made.

Are you the person writing some of those ASA test questions?

Ted

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Are you the person writing some of those ASA test questions?

Ted

Nah, he's the "editor."

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Are you the person writing some of those ASA test questions?

Ted

I know the question was facetious. Still, the process, as I understand it, is the members of the NUS present proposed questions to KR. He uses his Deputy Supervisors (one or some, primarily JJ) to help edit, but he is the primary test compiler (as opposed to author).

[greymule]

We should be careful about applying the baseball concept of "continuing action" to softball.

R1 on 2B. B2 hits a grounder to F6, who fakes R1 back to 2B and then throws to 1B. B2 beats the throw but touches only the white (i.e., misses 1B). The ball gets away from F3.

B2 advances to 2B. R1 rounds 3B and stands 20 feet down the line, trying to draw a throw. F3 runs the ball in and chases R1 all the way back to 3B. F3 then hands the ball to F1, who is standing next to her near 3B. As F3 returns to her position, F1 walks toward the circle while R1 stands on 3B talking to the 3B coach. Several seconds later, just before F1 enters the circle, R1 breaks for home. F1 throws home in an attempt to get R1 (outcome doesn't matter).

The defense now appeals B2's miss of 1B.

In ASA, regardless of how much or what type of action occurs after a baserunning error, the defense can appeal until the next pitch, legal or illegal (or the infielders have vacated, or last play of game and umpires have left, etc.). Therefore, the appeal should be upheld.

In OBR, the intervening play—after the stoppage of continuing action—would void the right of the defense to appeal.

(Note: Fed and NCAA baseball don't follow OBR exactly in this area. I'm not sure, but I think they recognize continuing versus relaxed action but do not void an appeal if the offense initiates the intervening play.)

The concept of continuing versus relaxed action certainly complicates the game, but remember that in baseball, runners can break for the next base at any time that the ball is live, such as when the pitcher is getting the sign. In OBR, in theory, several batters could bat without the ball becoming dead. This of course is not true in softball. And (except for Babe Ruth), softball permits dead ball appeals, which OBR does not.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by greymule

We should be careful about applying the baseball concept of "continuing action" to softball.

R1 on 2B. B2 hits a grounder to F6, who fakes R1 back to 2B and then throws to 1B. B2 beats the throw but touches only the white (i.e., misses 1B). The ball gets away from F3.

B2 advances to 2B. R1 rounds 3B and stands 20 feet down the line, trying to draw a throw. F3 runs the ball in and chases R1 all the way back to 3B. F3 then hands the ball to F1, who is standing next to her near 3B. As F3 returns to her position, F1 walks toward the circle while R1 stands on 3B talking to the 3B coach. Several seconds later, just before F1 enters the circle, R1 breaks for home. F1 throws home in an attempt to get R1 (outcome doesn't matter).

The defense now appeals B2's miss of 1B.

In ASA, regardless of how much or what type of action occurs after a baserunning error, the defense can appeal until the next pitch, legal or illegal (or the infielders have vacated, or last play of game and umpires have left, etc.). Therefore, the appeal should be upheld.

In OBR, the intervening play—after the stoppage of continuing action—would void the right of the defense to appeal.

(Note: Fed and NCAA baseball don't follow OBR exactly in this area. I'm not sure, but I think they recognize continuing versus relaxed action but do not void an appeal if the offense initiates the intervening play.)

The concept of continuing versus relaxed action certainly complicates the game, but remember that in baseball, runners can break for the next base at any time that the ball is live, such as when the pitcher is getting the sign. In OBR, in theory, several batters could bat without the ball becoming dead. This of course is not true in softball. And (except for Babe Ruth), softball permits dead ball appeals, which OBR does not.

And all that is fine (even in 'bama), if we were talking about appeals. We are talking about a protest.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I believe NM & DC may have also been at the table for at least one round.

Have no idea why the Great Northwest chose to not to share a beverage or two.

Yeah, we shared. We just didn't know where the f*k you were. We were typically in the bar across from the training rooms, or we retired to someone's room and sat around shooting the schitt and drinking crown.

Sorry we missed ya. Sounds like the umpire communication broke down.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by SRW

Yeah, we shared. We just didn't know where the f*k you were. We were typically in the bar across from the training rooms, or we retired to someone's room and sat around shooting the schitt and drinking crown.

Sorry we missed ya. Sounds like the umpire communication broke down.

No kidding. Mike posted here before the convention, as well as during, that we would be at Chisolm's, not the Bombay Club.

Actually, we did attend the Bombay Club Thursday night, since Chisolm's closed early. We stayed with Rod and the Alaska group pretty late that night. But Friday and Saturday we went to Chisolm's; we had an "arrangement" with the barkeep that was mutually advantageous.

In fact, it was so advantageous that AZBIGDOG drank MY BEER!!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

No kidding. Mike posted here before the convention, as well as during, that we would be at Chisolm's, not the Bombay Club.

Actually, we did attend the Bombay Club Thursday night, since Chisolm's closed early. We stayed with Rod and the Alaska group pretty late that night. But Friday and Saturday we went to Chisolm's; we had an "arrangement" with the barkeep that was mutually advantageous.

In fact, it was so advantageous that AZBIGDOG drank MY BEER!!

5...4...3...2...1.....I expected Darrell to chime in by now.

And yes, when three people drink for nearly two hours for less than $10, it was very advantageous.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

The BR is always referred to as the BR until the time she becomes a runner. In the course of one play, the BR will not become a R. I know of no one who describes plays in that manner, unless it is the little ball folk.

This year for the first time I've noticed that just by definition this is not necessarily the case. I agree with your nomenclature and thats how I've always thought of and used the terms but the definitions indicate something else. I've read the rule book every year for the past seven years and have just noticed this this year.

Batter Runner: A player who has completed a turn at bat but has not yet been put out or reached first base.

Runner: An offensive player who has reached first base and has not yet been put out or scored.

So B1 lays down a bunt, between home and 1st she is a batter runner, by definition. Once she reaches first she now, by definition, becomes a runner.

I know there is language throughout the book that uses batter-runner rounding first base (i.e. the Look Back Rule, taking batter-runner to first base, etc), however, the definition disagrees with this.

Has anyone else every noticed the discrepancy in the definition and how its used in the book?

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

No kidding. Mike posted here before the convention, as well as during, that we would be at Chisolm's, not the Bombay Club.

Actually, we did attend the Bombay Club Thursday night, since Chisolm's closed early. We stayed with Rod and the Alaska group pretty late that night. But Friday and Saturday we went to Chisolm's; we had an "arrangement" with the barkeep that was mutually advantageous.

In fact, it was so advantageous that AZBIGDOG drank MY BEER!!

Im not stupid...It was swill..but it was CHEAP swill....

I was in hell...a black man stuck in a western bar with no real beer in sight.....It was tragic....