Catcher not returning ball to pitcher

[topper]

ASA punishes the defense with an IP (NCAA awards a ball to the batter and a warning for the 1st offense) when a catcher loses the count and erroneously throws the ball around when the bases are empty. Three questions:

1. Why is the rule in place?

2. Why is there no penalty when the batter takes off to first after ball 3?

3. Why the IP in ASA when the penalty amounts to the same as NCAA - a ball on the batter?

Maybe this has come up before on this board. If so, pardon my ignorance.

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by topper

ASA punishes the defense with an IP (NCAA awards a ball to the batter and a warning for the 1st offense) when a catcher loses the count and erroneously throws the ball around when the bases are empty. Three questions:

1. Why is the rule in place?

2. Why is there no penalty when the batter takes off to first after ball 3?

3. Why the IP in ASA when the penalty amounts to the same as NCAA - a ball on the batter?

Maybe this has come up before on this board. If so, pardon my ignorance.

Why not ask the ASA home office?

Bob

[topper]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

Why not ask the ASA home office?

Bob

They won't return my calls. Go figure.

I guess the question is not specific to ASA. I am just curious why any code would punish the defense and not the offense for a similar act. Actually, with runners on base, I have seen the offense end up with stolen bases when the batter heads to 1st before ball 4. I don't see any real harm to the offense when a catcher doesn't return the ball directly to the pitcher. Hopefully one of the "home office" guys on this board can enlighten me as to ASA's take on this.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by topper

They won't return my calls. Go figure.

Maybe because they know it is not an IP

[topper]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Maybe because they know it is not an IP

6-7.b and effect begs to differ, but that's really just splitting hairs. Do you have any idea as to why the seemingly one-sided rule is used?

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by topper

6-7.b and effect begs to differ, but that's really just splitting hairs. Do you have any idea as to why the seemingly one-sided rule is used?

Look guy, one day a bunch of dudes sat around with iced tap water, cute matching shirts, and old coffee and talked about rules and they passed some rules and those are the rules. Some you agree with, some you dont. We do our job.

WTF over?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by topper

6-7.b and effect begs to differ, but that's really just splitting hairs. Do you have any idea as to why the seemingly one-sided rule is used?

It is not splitting hairs, it is you not reading the Effect below 6.8

It reads EFFECT - Sections 1-5, 7A and 8:

You might notice that this does not include 6.7.B

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

Why not ask the ASA home office?

Bob

Why should the ASA National Office answer a local rule question that didn't have the respect to follow the local chain of command? Assuming he is /you are registered with ASA, you have a local UIC, probably a district UIC, possibly a Zone UIC, assuredly a State (or Metro) UIC, and a Regional UIC.

If you haven't worked the process, the National Office should simply refer you back there. If none of that chain can answer the question, they can refer to the NUS for an answer.

Pretty sure that asking the White House to explain your Social Security benefits will get you referred to the Social Security Administration, at your most local level.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by topper

ASA punishes the defense with an IP (NCAA awards a ball to the batter and a warning for the 1st offense) when a catcher loses the count and erroneously throws the ball around when the bases are empty. Three questions:

1. Why is the rule in place?

2. Why is there no penalty when the batter takes off to first after ball 3?

3. Why the IP in ASA when the penalty amounts to the same as NCAA - a ball on the batter?

Maybe this has come up before on this board. If so, pardon my ignorance.

I'm pretty sure its "cuz."

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

I'm pretty sure its "cuz."

I think this answer still applies.

[Dholloway1962]

Seems like 4-5 years ago a question about this was on the ASA test. If I remember it was something like: Count 2-1 on B1. Wild pitch bounces off the catcher and bounds towards 3B dugout. Catcher retrieves the ball and tosses it to F5 who is standing nearby. F5 returns the ball to F1 in the circle. The right answer was award Ball 4 to B1. I missed it and that's how I learned that rule.

I would personally never call that situation a ball OOO if you ask me. I have however called a ball on the situation in the OP.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Let me try to answer the reason for the rule.

When I started as an umpire in the early 70's, almost every men's fastpitch catcher in the leagues I called threw the ball to someone other than the pitcher. Every pitch. Ball or strike, or foul, the catcher threw to the third baseman, or the first baseman, or even the shortstop. That player then walked part way to the circle, made some comment to the pitcher, then flipped him the ball. I asked them why; they said it "kept them in the game". Every pitch, every time. Not making a play, just tossing the ball around.

It also kept all of us in the game, a lot longer than we needed to be; it wasted an awful lot of time. When I started calling ASA in the mid-80's, I was happy to see that this was penalized. Don't know when, but I would bet the rule was put in place to keep the game moving, and end that useless practice (like NFHS stopping on-field huddles).

The offense attempting to twist the rule and take off on ball 3 or dropped strike 2 is a more recent issue, so far as I know. It hasn't reached the epidemic point to cause the rules to penalize it; and the solution for the defense is actually quite simple. They just need to pay attention, know the count, and only react when necessary. The best defense is to throw out the advancing lead runner; they get the out and the batter back in the box!!

Is that 'cuz?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by topper

ASA punishes the defense with an IP (NCAA awards a ball to the batter and a warning for the 1st offense) when a catcher loses the count and erroneously throws the ball around when the bases are empty. Three questions:

1. Why is the rule in place?

It is not an IP

2. Why is there no penalty when the batter takes off to first after ball 3?

Because there is no violation

3. Why the IP in ASA when the penalty amounts to the same as NCAA - a ball on the batter?

Again, it is not an IP

[Dholloway1962]

Well I don't have my ASA book handy, but I thought it was a ball on the batter in ASA as well?

Now that I thought a minute, it's not an IP but it is a ball on the batter. I guess one could say it has the same effect as an IP (ball on batter) as this situation can only occur with no one on base. Therefore it is only a ball and no bases are awarded.