interference or obstruction?

[umpire george]

R1 on 1st base. B2 hits ball to F4, standing in baseline. F4 has opportunity to tag R1 but decides to toss ball to F6 for force out. Ball reaches F6 in plenty of time for force but R1 in attempting to reach 2nd base runs into F4 without the ball.
I call obstruction on F4. Did I make right call?

[NCASAUmp]

Speaking ASA - Sounds a bit HTBT to me. Like the runners, defensive players can't just go "poof" once they throw the ball. F4 had a right to be where she was when she was fielding the ball, as well as when she possessed the ball. Once she threw the ball, unless I see her intentionally trying to hinder the runner, I've got an out.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by umpire george

R1 on 1st base. B2 hits ball to F4, standing in baseline. F4 has opportunity to tag R1 but decides to toss ball to F6 for force out. Ball reaches F6 in plenty of time for force but R1 in attempting to reach 2nd base runs into F4 without the ball.
I call obstruction on F4. Did I make right call?

Speaking ASA

Where was the ball when R1 ran into F4? If in F6's glove, R1 is no longer a runner.

Even if it was an extremely slow toss of the ball, the purpose of OBS is to off-set the affect of the obstruction. Had the OBS not occurred, R1 still would have been out.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Pretty close to Dave, but I don't think I want to use the discussion point with a coach that fielders without the ball can't go poof. Standing in the basepath without possession of the ball and not actively (any more) fielding the ball, and hindering the runner (even unintentionally) is the very definition of obstruction; that conversation could easily lead to a protest that might have to be upheld.

In my conversation, the runner was already out before the apparent obstruction, and retired runners have no rights to continue running unimpeded.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Pretty close to Dave, but I don't think I want to use the discussion point with a coach that fielders without the ball can't go poof. Standing in the basepath without possession of the ball and not actively (any more) fielding the ball, and hindering the runner (even unintentionally) is the very definition of obstruction; that conversation could easily lead to a protest that might have to be upheld.

In my conversation, the runner was already out before the apparent obstruction, and retired runners have no rights to continue running unimpeded.

Yeah, I wouldn't phrase it to a coach like that, either, as they'll take it as "if my fielder just threw the ball, I can have them block runners."

Give 'em an inch, they'll take a mile.

Anyway, I still have an out.

[bkbjones]

Besides, if you turn to Page One of your unofficial umpire's manual, you will note the first sentence reads "When in doubt, get an out."

Somewhat more seriously, I do not have obs here as the play is described. If, in the sole judgement of the umpire, there is no frickin way she was going to get to the bag before being put out, there is no obs.

Caveat: It is a judgement call. If the BU rules obs, then it's obs. We might visit about it out back after the game, but it is a judgement call.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

We might visit about it out back after the game, ...

Out back behind Ft. Dent?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

...Even if it was an extremely slow toss of the ball, the purpose of OBS is to off-set the affect of the obstruction. Had the OBS not occurred, R1 still would have been out.

Originally Posted by bkbjones

...If, in the sole judgement of the umpire, there is no frickin way she was going to get to the bag before being put out, there is no obs....

Anyone else have a problem with these two statements?

I do.

[DaveASA/FED]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Anyone else have a problem with these two statements?

I do.

So what is your problem with those statements? Maybe they could have been more "politically correct" but they are basically stating the same thing that we have been told, if the play would have been an out without the OBS then it remains an out. The classic example of a pop fly to the outfield that is caught in the air for an out, if the BR rounds first and trips over the first baseperson we still got an out....the OBS in that case doesn't let them have 2nd base, they are still out. I see it as the same type of interpretation, agian could have been worded differently so it didnt' seem like they were "making up" a ruling and hiding behind the J card (in my judgement) but I see the validity in their reasoning.

So what would you rule and why??

[topper]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Anyone else have a problem with these two statements?

I do.

If these 2 statements are saying that they have an obstructed runner called out between the bases where the OBS occurred, I do too.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by topper

If these 2 statements are saying that they have an obstructed runner called out between the bases where the OBS occurred, I do too.

Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. While the objective of the OBS rule is to restore things as if the OBS had not taken place, in no way does this ever say that between the bases where the OBS occurred, you let the out stand merely because without OBS, the runner would have been out.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Anyone else have a problem with these two statements?

I do.

Sorry to hear that, but that's life in the big city.

Of course, these comments were specific to the play at hand. Not much different than OBS on a BR between the plate and 1B on a caught fly ball.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Sorry to hear that, but that's life in the big city.

Of course, these comments were specific to the play at hand. Not much different than OBS on a BR between the plate and 1B on a caught fly ball.

I wasn't aware DE had any big cities...

I know your comments were specific to the play at hand, but in general, a runner is protected between the bases where the obs occurred EVEN IF the runner was a certain out.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I know your comments were specific to the play at hand, but in general, a runner is protected between the bases where the obs occurred EVEN IF the runner was a certain out.

Yes, and if she were obstructed she would be protected by rule. I certainly have no reason why that rule would not be enforced. sorry I wasn't more clear. I guess I should have realized someone would read far more into it than I intended...arrrgggh

[topper]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Sorry to hear that, but that's life in the big city.

Of course, these comments were specific to the play at hand. Not much different than OBS on a BR between the plate and 1B on a caught fly ball.

I undertand, but your you first post confuses me in that it stated that "Had the OBS not occurred, R1 still would have been out.". It either is, or is not, OBS. If it is, I certainly don't need to tell you that the runner cannot be called out. If you meant that you would not have had OBS, then it's a matter of judgement, not rules.

BTW, how many people do live in Wilmington?