Batter/Runner question

[kfrisbee]

ASA fastpitch 12U

1 out, batter gets base on balls, rounds first and stops for a split second and returns to first. R1 is on 3rd base no other runners, if that makes a difference.

Is the runner out?

It is my understanding that as soon as the batter has the right to first base, she is now considered a "runner" and has all the same rights to advance as a batter/runner who just hit a base hit.

See rule 8.8.x NSA rules in notes

Thanks!

[3afan]

assume you're asking is the batter-runner out ... no, she can round first base, find the ball then "immediately" decide what to do ... you are correct, she has the same right to stop once in between bases just as any other runner

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by 3afan

assume you're asking is the batter-runner out ... no, she can round first base, find the ball then "immediately" decide what to do ... you are correct, she has the same right to stop once in between bases just as any other runner

Agree, but what does an NSA rule have to do with an ASA game?

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Agree, but what does an NSA rule have to do with an ASA game?

I was wondering the same thing.

[kfrisbee]

Sorry, it was an NSA game - typo

[kfrisbee]

OK, since the team plays ASA, NSA and USSSA is this rule the same in all three?

There are way too many rulebooks...

[argodad]

Originally Posted by kfrisbee

OK, since the team plays ASA, NSA and USSSA is this rule the same in all three?

There are way too many rulebooks...

In this situation, the effect and enforcement are the same in all codes. (Except maybe LL -- I don't do LL either.)

Edited to reflect Dakota's post below.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by argodad

In this situation, the effect and enforcement are the same in all codes.

I seem to recall from previous discussions that LL has a bit of a different take on this kind of play... but I could be wrong (I don't do LL).

[kfrisbee]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I seem to recall from previous discussions that LL has a bit of a different take on this kind of play... but I could be wrong (I don't do LL).

We don't do LL either.

Thank you all for the input!

[bellnier]

My DD was stuck with the LL rule set for a time...if I recall correctly, the LB rule is essentially same as most others with one exception: there is no requirement that B-R reach 1B before triggering rule for other runners.

[dmore]

There is not much to this rule, which provides no end to the debates:
7.08 Any runner is out when -
(5) The runner fails to keep contact with the base to which that runner is entitled until the ball has been batter or reaches the batter or in Junior/Senior/Big League the runner fails to keep contact with the base to which the runner is entitled untill the ball is released by the pitcher. Note 1: (redacted dropped ball idiocy),When a runner is off a base after a pitch or as a result of a batter completing a turn at bat, and while the pitcher has the ball within the eight (8) foot radius circle, the runner must immediately attempt to advance to the next base or return to the base the runner is entitled. Note 2: If the pitcher has possession of the ball within the pitcher's circle, and is not making a play (a fake throw is considered a play), runners not in contact with their bases must immediately attempt to advance or return to base. Penalty: The ball is dead. "No Pioch" is declared and the runner is out. Eight (8) foot radius circle must be properly marked. (redacted dropped third strike APPROVED RULING).

SO none of the stuff that deals with player stopping once and making a decision is there, LBR is not on until a walked batter makes it to first.

Good thing is though that most of these coaches have never read the rulebook and LBR is pretty mysterious so it is not hard to convince them they you know what you are talking about and that they don't.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by dmore

7.08 Any runner is out when -
(5) . . . When a runner is off a base after a pitch or as a result of a batter completing a turn at bat, and while the pitcher has the ball within the eight (8) foot radius circle, the runner must immediately attempt to advance to the next base or return to the base the runner is entitled.

SO none of the stuff that deals with player stopping once and making a decision is there, LBR is not on until a walked batter makes it to first.

Emphasis added.

Wrong, I think. What is also not present in the LL softball rule is the provision (present in ASA and Fed) that the LBR does not go into effect until the batter reaches first. I don't do much LL softball, but I educated myself on this rule on this forum earlier this year, and it was the subject of at least two threads.

My understanding and conclusion is that the LBR in LL is the same as ASA, except that it goes into effect as soon as the pitcher gets the ball in the circle, even if before the walked batter reaches first. It is still a one-stop rule, so the batter-runner can round first (without stopping), but that runner on third is supposed to retreat or advance once the pitcher has the ball in the circle. That makes the BR-draw-a-throw-so-Rx-at-third-can-score play more difficult to execute.

[dmore]

Let me clarify when I said
"SO none of the stuff that deals with player stopping once and making a decision is there, LBR is not on until a walked batter makes it to first.


WHat I meant is that none of that is clarified in the rule. SPecifically that there is nothing there about a player stopping once and making a decision, there is nothing in the LL rule about the LBR being on (or not on) until the walked batter makes it to first.

Grasp of the rule is right command of the language isn't so clear at times.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by dmore

There is not much to this rule, which provides no end to the debates:
7.08 Any runner is out when - ...
... Penalty: The ball is dead. "No Pioch" is declared and the runner is out. Eight (8) foot radius circle must be properly marked. (redacted dropped third strike APPROVED RULING)

so if I am reading this LL drivel correctly, according to the penalty "no pitch" is declared. Does that remove the base on balls on the batter?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

so if I am reading this LL drivel correctly, according to the penalty "no pitch" is declared. Does that remove the base on balls on the batter?

Yes, but that is true in ASA & others as well. Since the ball is dead on the infraction, and the infraction by definition happened before the ball left the pitcher's hand, there was no pitch. I suppose the reason it is explicitly stated in the LL rule is because the younger kids have to wait until the ball reaches the batter.