DP/FLEX Ejection

[umpharp]

ASA mens modified

Team A has only 10 players present and decides to play the game with 10 players on the lineup card using a DP/FLEX.

In the 3rd inning, the DP gets ejected.

Team A then puts the FLEX into the game and has him bat in the DP spot as the SUB.

Legal?

I said yes, because if you took away the ejection, Team A could have made a legal sub and had the FLEX bat for himself, but of course, Team B argued that this wasn't legal.

I think I was right with my call, but wanted to double check.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally Posted by umpharp

ASA mens modified

Team A has only 10 players present and decides to play the game with 10 players on the lineup card using a DP/FLEX.

In the 3rd inning, the DP gets ejected.

Team A then puts the FLEX into the game and has him bat in the DP spot as the SUB.

Legal?

I said yes, because if you took away the ejection, Team A could have made a legal sub and had the FLEX bat for himself, but of course, Team B argued that this wasn't legal.

I think I was right with my call, but wanted to double check.

If modified ball like rest, that was the only place the FLEX could bat, was for
DP. Not a sub, just batting for DP and team down to 9.

[JefferMC]

This team was fortunate in that the DP was ejected instead of one of the 8 players that would have caused a forfeit.

A similar situation happened to a 14U team at the Nationals in Midlands, TX this year. They had 10 players and elected to play DP/Flex (not something I would have done, but...). While on defense, a player from the other team crashed into F2 holding the ball. The umpire ejected the offensive player. F2 got up, apparently looking like she was spoiling for a fight and got ejected, too. The offensive team won the game 7-0 (by forfeit).

[AtlUmpSteve]

What you say is logical; they have a legal substitution available, that the FLEX can enter for the DP. And, it now complies with the shorthanded rule, ASA 4-1.D(2)a, which says "If a team begins play with the required number of players as listed, that team may continue a game with one less player than is currently in the batting order whenever a player leaves the game for any reason other than ejection."

So, they started with a legal number, were batting 9, can still bat 9.

The reason I say this is that this was an editorial change made by ASA in 2006 or 2007 (can't find a 2006 handy). It used to say (in 2005 and previous years) "currently in the lineup"; that meant you could not legally drop to 9 players when previously playing with DP/FLEX as a result of an ejection, unless you had a legal substitute (which you chose NOT to use).

Over the years, I had this discussion with several of the upper hierarchy in the NUS; they wanted the forfeit if a player in the game was ejected and there was no legal sub on the bench. Henry argued that the team shouldn't be treated differently if the player who earned an ejection was the DP or the FLEX, rather than a position player. I argued that a team that had a sub they weren't going to use shouldn't have an additional move available that a team without a sub wouldn't have (but has under any other circumstance). When the new broom swept, someone agreed with me, and made that small change.

Edited to add: Found my 2006, still said "lineup". So the change was made after 2006, with the 2007 book.

ps: Checked ISF while posting other rules; would be a forfeit there, cannot drop to 9 by an ejection if playing with DP.

[gumpire]

Don't know if this is the same thing but, we play an "unlimited batting order" or "ASA substitution". If a team starts with all players (usually 13-14) in the line-up, then 1 player chooses to leave or is injured, who do you sub? All players are already in line-up and I interpret that if a player leaves the line-up, they are an out each time their spot comes up in line-up (ASA rules league).
Right?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by gumpire

Don't know if this is the same thing but, we play an "unlimited batting order" or "ASA substitution". If a team starts with all players (usually 13-14) in the line-up, then 1 player chooses to leave or is injured, who do you sub? All players are already in line-up and I interpret that if a player leaves the line-up, they are an out each time their spot comes up in line-up (ASA rules league).
Right?

Your league needs to address this in their rules. Most of the time (in my experience) with bat-the-roster rules, if a player has to leave the lineup (injury, dance lessons ,...), the lineup merely collapses and no out is charged. Here, no out is charged even if they drop to 8 in bat-the-roster games. If they go below 8, the game is a forfeit. Also, once a player leaves the lineup, she may not come back during that game (I suppose to try to limit "situational" injuries).

But, as I said, since you are talking about a local rule, the local people would need to clarify their rule.

[Dakota]

PS to the above post: I assume you are NOT talking about Senior SP divisions, which have the option in the ASA rule book of batting the roster. In those games, the shorthanded rule applies.