HBP after illegal pitch

[scroobs]

ASA...0 outs, 0 on base. Pitcher throws an illegal pitch which then hits the batter. Whats the call? Where is it in the book?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Pitching Rule 6, EFFECT D. If an illegal pitch hits a batter out of the strike zone, the batter is awarded first base, and all other runners advance one base.

[MNBlue]

The illegal pitch is a DDB, so we didn't kill it. The HBP is an immediate DB, so we kill it. The HBP award will be imposed first, since we penalize the IP after the play and awards have been complete. Doing so, will eliminate the need for the IP penalty, since the BR will have reached 1B.

[scroobs]

ok...but if you had a runner on 2nd in this situation, the manager would have a choice to take the play, or the award???

[Andy]

Originally Posted by scroobs

ok...but if you had a runner on 2nd in this situation, the manager would have a choice to take the play, or the award???

Let's see....the result of the play would be - runners on first and second

The result of the penalty award would be - runners on first and second.

Tough choice for some coaches.....

[scroobs]

forget the last post...i read the rule. seems to be an uncommon award for this situation. i probably would have given the manager the choice of (batter gets 1st on the hbp), or the award for illegal pitch, (ball on the batter), because the runner on 2nd didn't advance. In this situation, it wouldn't matter.

[Dholloway1962]

Originally Posted by Andy

Let's see....the result of the play would be - runners on first and second

The result of the penalty award would be - runners on first and second.
Tough choice for some coaches.....

Result of the play and awards, would be runners on 1B and 3B.

[Dakota]

Maybe a situation like this is what scoobs is getting at:

No outs, 0-0 count. R1 on 2B. Pitcher throws an illegal pitch which then hits the batter.

Result of play (HBP): runners on 1B and 2B.

Result of IP penalty:
a) Ball hits batter in the strike zone: runner on 3B, 1-0 count on the batter.
b) Ball hits batter out of the strike zone: R1 on 3B, R2 on 1B (6-EFFECT D)

If the IP hit the batter in the strike zone, the OC does have a choice (EFFECT C). Otherwise, no. Enforce the penalty.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Dholloway1962

Result of the play and awards, would be runners on 1B and 3B.

The scenario is an illegal pitch that hits the batter out of the strike zone.

Without the illegal pitch, the play is a dead ball, batter awarded first base, other runners advance only if forced. R1 on second stays there, BR awarded first.

Since the illegal pitch is a delayed dead ball, nothing will happen until the play is complete. When the ball hits the batter, it is an immediate dead ball. (MNBlue said this earlier). The penalty award for a batter hit by a pitched ball out of the strike zone is first base. Since the ball is dead, R1 on second stays there. Same outcome as above.

Basically, I agree with the concept that the hit batter "cancels" the illegal pitch.

[MNBlue]

With runners on, we are actually making an award for the IP to the runners (bumping them a base) and an award to the batter for the HBP(1B).

[Dholloway1962]

Originally Posted by Andy

The scenario is an illegal pitch that hits the batter out of the strike zone.

Without the illegal pitch, the play is a dead ball, batter awarded first base, other runners advance only if forced. R1 on second stays there, BR awarded first.

Since the illegal pitch is a delayed dead ball, nothing will happen until the play is complete. When the ball hits the batter, it is an immediate dead ball. (MNBlue said this earlier). The penalty award for a batter hit by a pitched ball out of the strike zone is first base. Since the ball is dead, R1 on second stays there. Same outcome as above.

Basically, I agree with the concept that the hit batter "cancels" the illegal pitch.

Not true Andy....Pitching Rules 6 Section 8 EFFECT D. If an illegal pitch hits a batter out of the strike zone, the batter is awarded first base, and all other runners advance one base.

[Andy]

You're right...I stand corrected....

I just thought it might be kind of fun to watch some coaches I know try to decide which of the "choices" I proposed would work better for them....

[Dholloway1962]

Originally Posted by Andy

You're right...I stand corrected....

I just thought it might be kind of fun to watch some coaches I know try to decide which of the "choices" I proposed would work better for them....

And I'm always for a little of that fun as well

[scroobs]

Originally Posted by Dholloway1962

Not true Andy....Pitching Rules 6 Section 8 EFFECT D. If an illegal pitch hits a batter out of the strike zone, the batter is awarded first base, and all other runners advance one base.

This should definitely be put on the 2009 exam. I can see a alot of umpires getting this wrong...

[Dholloway1962]

It's been on one before......I missed it and that's how I learned it