Missed base - what to do, what to do?

[Andy]

Originally Posted by snorman75

I will ask for help on this play almost every time at third:

2 man crew, less then 2 outs, runner on second.

Ball to short stop, looks runner back, makes play to first, BU's call. Runner takes off to third, as PU I am taking the play at third. the throw draws the third baseman in and toward second. They make a swipe tag, and I as PU do not see any contact. Unless you are super man and you are standing at third looking down the base line to second, which you then left your part hanging on the pulled foot at first. Why not ask your part if they had a tag. Since they should be standing what? 10-15 feet behind the pitchers mound with a perfect angle on the swipe tag.

I know some will disagree with me, but I believe PU needs to stay in the vicinity of home looking down the 1b line to help with the pulled foot, then release to get the play at third. Don't go directly up the line to third, take a path approx halfway between 3b and the pitchers circle, then adjust with the throw. Ideally, you get set, watch the play, and close to the base as you make the call. If you hustle, you can get a decent look at the play.

[snorman75]

Originally Posted by Andy

I know some will disagree with me, but I believe PU needs to stay in the vicinity of home looking down the 1b line to help with the pulled foot, then release to get the play at third. Don't go directly up the line to third, take a path approx halfway between 3b and the pitchers circle, then adjust with the throw. Ideally, you get set, watch the play, and close to the base as you make the call. If you hustle, you can get a decent look at the play.

I agree, you have to stay and watch the foot. That is why it is hard to get that swipe tag at 3rd. You have fielder, ball & glove and then runner in a strait line right in front of you, I hate it when that happens. The worst is when you are alone and you have no part for help.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by Andy

I know some will disagree with me, but I believe PU needs to stay in the vicinity of home looking down the 1b line to help with the pulled foot, then release to get the play at third. Don't go directly up the line to third, take a path approx halfway between 3b and the pitchers circle, then adjust with the throw. Ideally, you get set, watch the play, and close to the base as you make the call. If you hustle, you can get a decent look at the play.

Andy,
I agree with you. After verifying whether or not a puuled foot at 1B, bust your tail to 3B for that call. I'll state that I'm far faster than most, in moving as an umpire, but all should be able to take care of responsibilities of being able to help with pulled foot at 1b (Isn't this the call that statistics show has the most ejections?) - and still get to a good calling position for the play at
3B.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

I know some will disagree with me, but I believe PU needs to stay in the vicinity of home looking down the 1b line to help with the pulled foot, then release to get the play at third. Don't go directly up the line to third, take a path approx halfway between 3b and the pitchers circle, then adjust with the throw. Ideally, you get set, watch the play, and close to the base as you make the call. If you hustle, you can get a decent look at the play.

I will disagree. With a runner on 1B, you are correct. With a runner on 2B, there is no way, even with Steve's speed, you can wait for a play at 1B and still be in any type of acceptable position for a play at 3B. You are not going to outrun the throw to 3B especially at the adult level which is where this thread began.

If R1 is releasing on the throw to 1B, s/he will be more than 2/3 of the way to 3B by the time the play is completed at 1B. If the runner wasn't checked prior to the throw to 1B, s/he is going to be on 3B by the time the play at 1B is complete. And should that runner feel a little frisky and keep coming, you are directly in the line of the throw to the plate. Even if that only happens once, it is one time too many.

The PU can still watch 1B for a possible pulled foot, but needs to do it from the foul side of the 3B line and be prepared for any play at 3B or home.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by snorman75

I will ask for help on this play almost every time at third:

2 man crew, less then 2 outs, runner on second.

Ball to short stop, looks runner back, makes play to first, BU's call. Runner takes off to third, as PU I am taking the play at third. the throw draws the third baseman in and toward second. They make a swipe tag, and I as PU do not see any contact. Unless you are super man and you are standing at third looking down the base line to second, which you then left your part hanging on the pulled foot at first. Why not ask your part if they had a tag. Since they should be standing what? 10-15 feet behind the pitchers mound with a perfect angle on the swipe tag.

On the 90' diamond, I take both ends as the BU with no problems. Is this harder on the 60' diamond because the umpires are starting outside the diamond?

But if I was the PU and for some reason I did come up, I'd do the best I can, call the runner safe, and head back to the plate. If the BU knew I was coming up, I'd expect him to close distance at first and not have a great view at third. Worst thing I could do is make no call, look for a partner not in a good position, and then make a late, weak call.

Pulled foot and swipe tags belong to the BU in my world. I get the best position possible and make the call. Last week I had a "pulled foot" that wasn't - the kid caught the ball and came off quick and of course I was the only one in the place watching the foot at the time of the catch. The coach couldn't believe or understand that I would not, absolutely not, get help on a call I was 100% sure of. About a minute later he decided he didn't like a call I made 2 innings earlier and shouted out, "That's two you've missed," which got him sent to the parking lot. Yup, the players were 9-10 years old and it was, indeed, a Little League game.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

On the 90' diamond, I take both ends as the BU with no problems. Is this harder on the 60' diamond because the umpires are starting outside the diamond?

But if I was the PU and for some reason I did come up, I'd do the best I can, call the runner safe, and head back to the plate. If the BU knew I was coming up, I'd expect him to close distance at first and not have a great view at third. Worst thing I could do is make no call, look for a partner not in a good position, and then make a late, weak call.

Pulled foot and swipe tags belong to the BU in my world. I get the best position possible and make the call. Last week I had a "pulled foot" that wasn't - the kid caught the ball and came off quick and of course I was the only one in the place watching the foot at the time of the catch. The coach couldn't believe or understand that I would not, absolutely not, get help on a call I was 100% sure of. About a minute later he decided he didn't like a call I made 2 innings earlier and shouted out, "That's two you've missed," which got him sent to the parking lot. Yup, the players were 9-10 years old and it was, indeed, a Little League game.

Rich,
Standard mechanics in softball have PU making the call at 3B on this play. When I do a BB game, I try to do things according to the standard mechanics of BB, even though I am a softball ump who does some baseball.

As for the dump over "that's Two." AMEN

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

If the BU knew I was coming up, I'd expect him to close distance at first and not have a great view at third. Worst thing I could do is make no call, look for a partner not in a good position, and then make a late, weak call.

That's the key to the softball mechanic, Rich. The BU has to know that PU has 3rd on this play, and should close to get the right call on the front end at 1st. Remember, BU is starting outside the diamond, somewhere behind F6 (ideally off the left shoulder). If BU has closed, sells a close call, how does he effectively also spin around to make that banger call at 3rd. The best angle on the play at 1st has BU edging toward 2nd and closing in (away from the play at 3rd), while edging toward 3rd creates a poor angle at 1st (as well as potentially puts BU in the line of the throw from 1st to 3rd).

And, if you want him to do both calls, a) neither is that believable, 2) he invariably cheats on distance and/or angle on the front end to try to make a better call on the back end, and 3) everyone wonders why BU is making both calls while PU is still standing still behind the plate.

Thus, the proper softball mechanic is that BU closes and makes the best possible call at 1st, instead of the AT&T long distance call, while PU heads toward 3rd, and has the perfect 90 on the most typical tag play on 3rd, while staying completely out of the line of the throw. BU does turn and look, only to provide help (if asked) on the swipe tag that may be beyond the angle of the PU.