Illegal Pitch Warnings

[Bandit]

Does anyone know of a single organization (ASA, USFA, NSA, USSSA, ect) that has in it's rule book "warnings" for illegal pitches ?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Bandit

Does anyone know of a single organization (ASA, USFA, NSA, USSSA, ect) that has in it's rule book "warnings" for illegal pitches ?

The only warnings for an illegal pitch in ASA SP are for violations of rule 6-1-E (simulating a pitching motion while not in contact with the pitcher's plate), 6-3-G (excessive speed), and 6-5 (foreign substance).

Though I think your question has more to do with warning first, then declaring a second pitch illegal for performing the same action.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Bandit

Does anyone know of a single organization (ASA, USFA, NSA, USSSA, ect) that has in it's rule book "warnings" for illegal pitches ?

No. However, I have seen umpires do this who are afraid to pull the trigger when the violation occurs.

I do believe in preventative umpiring. If I see something illegal in a warm up, I will mention to the coach that if I see that during the game I will have to call the IP. If I miss it during warm-ups, it still doesn't prevent me from calling the IP when I see it.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

No. However, I have seen umpires do this who are afraid to pull the trigger when the violation occurs.

I do believe in preventative umpiring. If I see something illegal in a warm up, I will mention to the coach that if I see that during the game I will have to call the IP. If I miss it during warm-ups, it still doesn't prevent me from calling the IP when I see it.

I don't pay any attention to warm-up pitches. F1's do all sorts of weird crap when they warm up... the running step-throw from the pitching plate, forced leaps, you name it. If I see something once in a game, I let it go. 2 times - I'm calling it.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by SRW

I don't pay any attention to warm-up pitches. F1's do all sorts of weird crap when they warm up... the running step-throw from the pitching plate, forced leaps, you name it. If I see something once in a game, I let it go. 2 times - I'm calling it.

I agree - I don't pay any attention to warm-up pitching for the same reasons.
I'll call the IP the first time I see it, and am sure of what I saw.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by SRW

I don't pay any attention to warm-up pitches. F1's do all sorts of weird crap when they warm up... the running step-throw from the pitching plate, forced leaps, you name it. If I see something once in a game, I let it go. 2 times - I'm calling it.

I know that pitchers do strange things in warm-ups. Heck, some never even step on the pitching plate when they are warming up. But, IF their warm-ups do resemble game like pitching, AND I see something not legal in the delivery, I will tell a coach that "if I see that during the game then I will be calling it." Therefore, IF it is something other than a warm up ritual, they have the opportunity to address it.

I am curious as to why you don't call the illegal action the first time you see it.

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

No. However, I have seen umpires do this who are afraid to pull the trigger when the violation occurs.

as a tournament director said to a seriously misled coach ... if you're scared ... say you're scared......why be scared to enforce the rule.... not saying you are but these "others" you speak of are far out numbering the ones who will enforce it.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

I am curious as to why you don't call the illegal action the first time you see it.

Because I want to make sure I saw what I thought I saw. If something looks odd, I tend to think, "Did I just see that?" I tend to give F1 the benefit of the doubt... maybe they just had an oops moment. But it puts it in my head the thought "F1 might do that again, so pay attention." Hence, if it happens a second time, I'm calling it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SRW

Because I want to make sure I saw what I thought I saw. If something looks odd, I tend to think, "Did I just see that?" I tend to give F1 the benefit of the doubt... maybe they just had an oops moment. But it puts it in my head the thought "F1 might do that again, so pay attention." Hence, if it happens a second time, I'm calling it.

I've heard this many a time from the older regime and pass it on, as well:

"If you aren't sure, or have to go looking for it, it probably isn't illegal"

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I've heard this many a time from the older regime and pass it on, as well:

"If you aren't sure, or have to go looking for it, it probably isn't illegal"

I suspect we've all said the same thing - with different words.

I'm calling it the first time I see it and am sure of what I saw.
SRW is making sure of what he saw - and states it may have just looked strange the first time.

[Dholloway1962]

One other piece of advise I've heard and pass on....if you can't properly explain why it's illegal, don't call it.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally Posted by SRW

Because I want to make sure I saw what I thought I saw. If something looks odd, I tend to think, "Did I just see that?" I tend to give F1 the benefit of the doubt... maybe they just had an oops moment. But it puts it in my head the thought "F1 might do that again, so pay attention." Hence, if it happens a second time, I'm calling it.

I agree SRW, It is like the leaving early. "Did I just see what I thought?"
Look a little closer, cause if they are, they will again. They now think ole
"blie" is sleeping.

[wadeintothem]

I feel a need to be very careful about calling IP's to be honest. I must be sure of course. It also should be called early.. if you are seeing it the first time with a runner on 3, you probably missed it. I have found calling IP's is not appreciated at any level of ball.. except the lamer first inning stepping back (where no one is hurt by the call) and if it hits the fan over a "harsh" IP call, you will not likely be supported. Thats my experience anyway. Other areas may be different. I have always been an advocate of hard core calling of this until this year... My worst experiences at the admin level of this game have revolved around IP calls and on more than one instance. Its their game... so however ASA REALLY REALLY wants it called it fine by me.. and I've been taught.

[kcg NC2Ablu]

my philosophy is when seen ... call it early call it often ... make them change it...the rule is there for a reason and we should enforce it when we recognize it.

[DaveASA/FED]

Come on Bandit their only 10, give them the warning and then call it. Sorry couldn't resist!!!!