Blown call gone bad....

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Texasbock

You are officiating a state tournament and you are not aware of that rule?

I'm not so sure that ejecting a coach because he says that you don't know the rules was justified, because you obviously did not.

The only other matter I would find fault with is extending another inning with less than 59 seconds on the clock. Call the thing and the coaches would never know. Trust me.

Coaches should only be on a need to know basis when it comes to time. It would be in your best interest to tell them how much time left only if they ask.

Other than that, I would chalk it up to a learning experience and know that when you are calling a higher venue of ball, more will be expected and required from you.......

Even if you make a mistake, there's no justification for being disrespected by a coach. We're human, we make mistakes. There's no reason for him to criticize you in this fashion.

[robbie]

TEXASBOCK:

You stated:

"The only other matter I would find fault with is extending another inning with less than 59 seconds on the clock. Call the thing and the coaches would never know. Trust me.

Coaches should only be on a need to know basis when it comes to time."

That is totally irresponsible. IF we are playing a game with a clock, then we play with a clock. Last out made with 0:01 remaining means THE NEXT INNING HAS STARTED. You do not have the right to stop tha game.

[Texasbock]

Originally Posted by robbie

TEXASBOCK:

You stated:

"The only other matter I would find fault with is extending another inning with less than 59 seconds on the clock. Call the thing and the coaches would never know. Trust me.

Coaches should only be on a need to know basis when it comes to time."

That is totally irresponsible. IF we are playing a game with a clock, then we play with a clock. Last out made with 0:01 remaining means THE NEXT INNING HAS STARTED. You do not have the right to stop tha game.

Cool your heels my friend. I said that under the assumption that the official clock is on the stopwatch in my pocket. And if you stand by your statement in light of that, you are naive.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by robbie

...Last out made with 0:01 remaining means THE NEXT INNING HAS STARTED. You do not have the right to stop tha game.

While technically true, I've umpired in very few fields where there was a game timer on the scoreboard (only one site in the MSP metro has that AFAIK), so keeping time is up to the umpire. I most certainly do NOT resolve game time down to the 0:01 resolution. I round DOWN in all communications with coaches... coach asks how much time remains, I look at my timer, and it reads 16:48.98 (yes, it goes down to the .01 second!), I tell the coach "About 16 minutes.) If the last out is recorded with ~ a minute or more remaining, we play again. Less than ~a minute remaining, and we are done. Notice the "~" - I have no hard and fast round-down limit. Good, sharp playing teams in a close game will get more of the benefit of the round down errorthan sloppy teams or a team being vastly out-played. Also coming into play here is how long an inning has been taking. Teams that have been taking 20-25 minutes to complete an inning are NOT starting the 4th inning with only a minute or so left on the clock!

[robbie]

I see your points, but my point is IF IF IF we use a clock, we need to use it. Would you do the same an any other timed sport (well.................. except for the ever silly, phantom clock in soccer) Game is on until horn sounds.

In Indiana NSA ball, we have the clock on backstop for all to see. Which is how it should be - again - IF IF IF we say we use a clock. Otherwise, we should say, game is about 75 min, or 90 min, or whatever.

We expect the coaches to manage their time accordingly, so we cannot penalize for good (within the rules) game management.

Example - Home team down 5 runs and batting as time approaches. They ralley and score 3, but now have 2 out and 0 runners. 60 seconds remaining, batter steps on plate and bunts. Dead ball. Next inning. Home team bought themselves another shot - well within the rules. No way I say sorry coach, 0:49 seconds rounds down to 0. I simply say, bummer - we got a good coach and another inning to play.

[iowasoftballump]

It's funny that you say you haven't ever seen this play. I have had this play at least 5 times this year in all three FED/ASA/USSSA. Believe me it is a rule that you will not forget.

[NM FP Ump]

Originally Posted by iowasoftballump

It's funny that you say you haven't ever seen this play. I have had this play at least 5 times this year in all three FED/ASA/USSSA. Believe me it is a rule that you will not forget.

I've had the sit where the batter is still in the batter's box and there is a double hit, but never when the bat and the ball collide while in mid air. And you're right, I won't ever forget this rule.

As for the time issue, you can debate all you want, but if I am going to call the batter out for the ball hitting the bat twice (one rule) I am certainly going to allow an inning to start with time on the clock (another rule). Reminds me of a comeback to a complaining coach, "Which rules DO you want me to enforce, coach?" I guess with experience, comes wisdom.

[Dakota]

Let's not forget that adding a clock to a softball game is unnatural. The rules do not get into "clock management" at all except for a vaguely-worded rule about "tactics" resulting in a forfeit. The timed softball game is a tool to manage multiple scheduled games on the same field, nothing more or less. This can be to keep a tournament on schedule or to not have the 10:00 pm slowpitch game not get started until 11 because of some 12U rec game that started at 7:00 didn't finish until 9:15 because, by gosh, there was 0:02 left on the clock for teams that took 45 minutes to complete the last inning!

The rule exists to control use of the field, not to make sure some team is not cheated out of their chance to score another 12 runs while their opponents throw the ball around on every play.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

The rule exists to control use of the field, not to make sure some team is not cheated out of their chance to score another 12 runs while their opponents throw the ball around on every play.

Which is why the time + 1 inning is the best way to resolve this issue when a clock is needed to keep a tournament moving.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by NM FP Ump

So, do I chalk it up as a learning experience, and kick it around my head a few more days? Or do I go back to the rule book with a renewed dedication to memorizing every rule so they can be applied properly the next time around? I have chosen the latter.

You need to beat yourself up about it a little because this was on you. Bad rules application combined with poor game management to cause enough ejections to equal a forfeit.

We all make mistakes. So you need to go on and learn from them.

So ask youself..
What could you do better next time to make sure this doesnt happen?

This mistake doesnt make you a bad umpire. Learning from this is what will separate you from the bad umpires.

[7in60]

Originally Posted by Texasbock

I'm not so sure that ejecting a coach because he says that you don't know the rules was justified, because you obviously did not.

What? Are you joking? Showing up an ump is grounds for ejection no matter what the situation.

[Texasbock]

Originally Posted by 7in60

What? Are you joking? Showing up an ump is grounds for ejection no matter what the situation.

I disagree. There are no absolutes when it comes to grounds for ejections. That is certainly not written in any rulebook that I have read.

I'm just pointing out that it is possible that one could have become trigger happy given the facts of the first ejection. I was not there. If further detail revealed that this coach said it loud enough for the world to hear, then I would say it is possible he might need to go. But, personally I would do everything I could to at least give the guy a warning before I tossed him.

[robbie]

I agree with Texas with the exception on the "warning." Apparently some rule sets call for "warnngs?" I simply do not give them - well............ I do not use that particular word. I feel it paints you into a corner of absolutely NO tolerance after that. Kinda like tellin the kids if they spill their milk again, they will be grounded for a month. Guess what they WILL spill it again eventually.
I prefer:
Thats enough coach
We're done coach
We're playin ball
Lets get a batter
Etc

Funny come back a few weeks by Coach to a fairly young umpire:
Ump says "One more word and you're gone"
Coach's predictable response in a soft sarcastic tone............."word"
Yes he was tossed.

[Dakota]

My funniest coach comeback after a "warning" came a few years ago. Fans of one team were becoming outragesouly obnoxous, taunting the opponents, etc. It was just me and the 2 coaching staffs and the parents - no TD, site admin, etc. So I said to the coach, "Coach, one of your jobs is to control your fans. Do you know what happens to a coach who doesn't do his job?"

So, the coach goes over to talk with his fans. Soon, I hear a big cheer and lots of applause from the fans. The coach comes back and says, "Blue, I told them that if they did not behave you were going to eject me. They all cheered!"

(They did settle down, though...)

[robbie]

I had a funny post ejection comment.

I tossed 3rd base head coach. As he starts to plead his case on my deaf ears the 1st base coach comes flying over to me. I think oh boy..........
Well C1 yells "Blue, is C3 out of the game?" I reply in the affirmative and he says "Cool, I got third - Bill (Coach on bench) take first base, lets go"
We preceeded without incident.