Sorry, simple foul tip question

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Well, yeah...I meant other than the standard rules covering legally batted balls and foul tips!

Something specific like the helpful "NOTE" under 8-1-F that tells us the batter's hands are not part of the bat. Something that addresses the "myth" aspect of this play, maybe a case book ruling or something like that.

If they had to address every myth some idiot umpire bought into, the rule book would be bigger than War and Peace.

[roadking]

Then the foul tip signal should only be used on a caught ball given the criteria for a foul tip? Would you give this signal regardless of the count, just in case you have a attempted steal or do you only use it to sell the strike out.

[greymule]

the foul tip signal

I don't give any signal or announce anything. A foul tip is simply a strike call.

I admit that you see even some MLB umpires brush the right hand over the back of the left hand to indicate a foul tip, but there's really no reason to do so.

[IRISHMAFIA]

The proper mechanic is to give the signal anytime a foul tip occurs.

[cpa]

There is every reason in the world to give a foul tip signal on a caught ball -- especially if you have base runners stealing or just off base when it occurs. A foul tip imposes no tag up responsibilities on a runner, whereas a foul ball caught by the catcher (anything OTHER than a foul tip -- backwards line drive, pop up, whatever) imposes tag up responsibilities

Given that a strike call and an out call can look similar, the foul tip signal communicates that the ball is live and that no tag up responsibility exists.

[greymule]

If you say and signal "strike," everybody knows it's not a caught foul ball. Stealing runners are not likely to see your foul tip signal.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by greymule

If you say and signal "strike," everybody knows it's not a caught foul ball. Stealing runners are not likely to see your foul tip signal.

Nor is everyone is going to hear "strike" especially since most of us don't pronounce "strike" on the call, but the coaches can see the foul tip signal and instruct their runners accordingly.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by greymule

If you say and signal "strike," everybody knows it's not a caught foul ball. Stealing runners are not likely to see your foul tip signal.

Although the mechanics I've been taught say not to verbalize a swinging strike, I agree with "Stealing runners are not likely to see your foul tip signal".

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by greymule

If you say and signal "strike," everybody knows it's not a caught foul ball. Stealing runners are not likely to see your foul tip signal.

Actually, a reason for it happened this weekend.

Steal was on, I was BU.. foul tip (which I heard), I'm of course moving from B to position to call the banger throw down at 2b.. I watch the play at 2B, but was unsure whether it was a foul tip or foul ball, so I glanced at my partner who signaled foul tip and then I rang the runner up.

It communicates foul tip, as opposed to foul ball... because the bat is heard to hit the ball and it is not always clear what the call is.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by cpa

Given that a strike call and an out call can look similar, the foul tip signal communicates that the ball is live and that no tag up responsibility exists.

Unless you're the partner I had few weeks ago (a fourth or fifth year guy), who gave the foul tip signal on EVERY nicked ball, whether it was caught by the catcher or not!

Ugly. And, yes I did mention it to him after the game.

[ronald]

Not only was the question on the test, it is in the casebook I have from 2002. If you have the 2008 version, it would be interesting to know if it is in that one.

[scroobs]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The proper mechanic is to give the signal anytime a foul tip occurs.

Should we be verballizing this call?

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by scroobs

Should we be verballizing this call?

No.

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Originally Posted by MichaelVA2000

No.

that answer like your mustache this weekend says ... "I'm approachable"
haha

[argodad]

Originally Posted by greymule

the foul tip signal

I don't give any signal or announce anything. A foul tip is simply a strike call.

I admit that you see even some MLB umpires brush the right hand over the back of the left hand to indicate a foul tip, but there's really no reason to do so.

Sure there is ... especially if you have runners. It tells everyone that yes, the bat hit the ball, yes it went sharply and directly to the catcher's glove and was legally caught, and yes, it is a live ball.